Transcript
[0:02] Dear beloved community,
[0:04] I'm very honored to have the chance to
[0:08] sit on this panel with um these three
[0:11] wonderful scientists, researchers,
[0:14] and I'm just going to take a moment to
[0:16] to introduce the three of them to you
[0:20] um
[0:21] before we uh we hear their
[0:23] presentations. And then we'll also have
[0:25] some time at the end for some
[0:27] interaction. We hope they may ask each
[0:29] other some questions and then maybe also
[0:31] have some time for questions from the
[0:33] audience.
[0:35] So um on your left uh we have Dr. Ruth
[0:41] Lannias
[0:43] uh who's uh
[0:46] one of the leading researchers in the
[0:48] neuroscience of trauma and dissociation
[0:52] and she's at the University of Western
[0:53] Ontario in Canada which um she wanted to
[0:56] remind us is not the 51st state of the
[0:58] US
[1:01] and um yeah Ruth is a a wonderful
[1:04] scientist practitioner um human being
[1:10] and Um we've had uh the honor of having
[1:14] her here in Plumage before for a
[1:16] previous neuroscience retreat and then
[1:18] again for an online science retreat and
[1:20] and um and I've even had the chance to
[1:24] to co-e with her a little bit online. Um
[1:29] so we've been getting to know each other
[1:31] for for quite some time already and um
[1:34] yeah it's going to be wonderful to hear
[1:35] from her this afternoon. Uh the
[1:38] wonderful thing about this panel is that
[1:40] Ruth and Frank and Surn all work
[1:42] together and so this is a very deeply
[1:45] interconnected panel and um their talks
[1:49] will flow on from each other as well I
[1:52] think in a in a very beautiful way. So
[1:54] in the middle we have Dr. Frank Coran
[1:58] uh who's a psychiatrist and one of the
[2:00] leading experts on the brain stem uh and
[2:05] particularly the how the brain stem
[2:07] affects the manifestations of trauma and
[2:11] maybe and and
[2:13] insights from the brain stem as to how
[2:16] we might go about alleviating the
[2:18] suffering of trauma.
[2:20] And um
[2:23] and then to my right we have SARN Dr.
[2:26] Siban Fischer
[2:28] uh who's a pioneer of neuro feedback in
[2:31] the treatment of developmental trauma
[2:33] particularly and all kinds of trauma.
[2:36] She's also a secret poet. You can ask
[2:39] her about that later.
[2:42] This is all an in joke.
[2:46] And uh and Sbran is actually having her
[2:49] 35th anniversary of being in Plum
[2:52] Village. So she's all of our ancestors
[2:56] and uh she actually helped to build the
[2:58] turtle lodge which is in the forest over
[3:01] there. And she came to a retreat here
[3:03] when they were with Thai when there were
[3:06] probably retreats were like 20 people.
[3:08] No, it was 100.
[3:09] Oh, it was still 100 people. Okay. But
[3:11] yeah, so she's uh she's uh been here
[3:15] many many times since and is a member of
[3:17] the order of interbeing as well.
[3:20] So without further ado, like to hand the
[3:23] mic to to Ruth.
[3:27] Thank you.
[3:32] It's a real privilege.
[3:34] It's a real privilege.
[3:42] How's this? Perfect. It's a real
[3:45] privilege to be in this wonderful
[3:48] community and welcome to all.
[3:52] I want to talk a little bit about
[3:53] something that I think has been very
[3:55] difficult for my colleagues and me and
[3:58] that's really observing the
[4:00] dehumanization
[4:02] of neuroscience,
[4:04] medicine and mental health.
[4:07] And what do I mean by that? So I'm a
[4:10] psychiatrist and a researcher and our
[4:14] group is very passionate about studying
[4:17] the brain underpinnings of
[4:19] post-traumatic stress and other trauma
[4:21] related difficulties.
[4:24] And I think what we're observing is that
[4:28] what we're missing more and more out of
[4:31] the research is the actual firsterson
[4:34] experience of suffering.
[4:37] which is really why we do this research.
[4:41] And also when we talk, you know, to our
[4:44] patients who've been in the mental
[4:46] health care system,
[4:49] you know, we hear about this
[4:50] desperation,
[4:52] a not being able to receive help, but
[4:56] often when they get into the mental
[4:58] health care system, they feel like
[5:01] they've lost their dignity.
[5:05] And so
[5:07] as we start today, I just want to have
[5:09] some thoughts about how we can humanize
[5:14] neuroscience,
[5:16] medicine, and mental health or begin to
[5:20] think about humanizing it again.
[5:24] And I think one way out of this
[5:27] dehumanization
[5:29] is something that's called neuro
[5:31] phenomenology.
[5:34] And this term was first coined by
[5:36] Francesca Varela. And I hear his wife is
[5:40] actually at the retreat.
[5:44] And I think what Francesca Varela
[5:47] taught us is that we can't understand
[5:52] the biological mechanisms without the
[5:56] firsterson experience of suffering.
[6:01] So throughout neuroscience research,
[6:04] especially when we study different
[6:06] emotional difficulties, we always have
[6:09] to keep track of the first person
[6:11] experience as well as what biological
[6:15] mechanisms we're studying. That may be
[6:19] brain imaging, that may be heart rate
[6:21] variability, that may be different
[6:24] inflammatory markers. So to always pair
[6:28] the two.
[6:30] And of course I think this makes a lot
[6:32] of sense. But uh this I really
[6:36] experienced 25 years ago when I first
[6:38] started doing this research when I saw a
[6:42] couple that was involved in a car
[6:43] accident. And this couple reacted
[6:47] completely different to the same
[6:48] accident. They were in the same car,
[6:51] same accident. And yet when they had the
[6:56] accident, their reactions were
[6:57] completely different. And that really
[7:00] taught me to go to Franchesca's Varila's
[7:03] work and combine the subjective
[7:05] experience with the biology that we were
[7:08] measuring. So I just want to quickly
[7:10] give you that case example to really
[7:13] illustrate the importance of that. So
[7:15] this couple was driving on a highway in
[7:17] Canada. They hit a thick wall of fog,
[7:20] slammed on the brakes. It became a
[7:22] several hundred car pileup within
[7:25] seconds and a van was pushed into their
[7:28] car. A teenager tried to escape the car
[7:32] and the couple witnessed the teenager
[7:34] burn to death. The husband then smashed
[7:38] in the windshield, pulled his wife out,
[7:40] and they were both saved.
[7:43] And then a month later, I had the
[7:46] opportunity to get to know them both,
[7:48] assess them, and scan their brain while
[7:51] they were recalling this car accident.
[7:55] And they both, you know, were suffering
[7:56] from post-traumatic stress disorder. But
[7:59] when the husband recalled his accident,
[8:01] you know, was he was hyperaroused, his
[8:03] heart rate increased, and he felt like
[8:05] he was back at the scene of the trauma
[8:07] and he was planning how to pull himself
[8:10] and his wife out of the car.
[8:14] And his brain looked like this.
[8:17] So you see amygdala activation, that's
[8:20] part of the emotional learning brain.
[8:22] You see visual cortex activation which
[8:24] likely reflected that he was having
[8:26] flashbacks and some preffrontal cortex
[8:29] activity which likely reflected him
[8:32] planning how to get himself and his wife
[8:34] out of the car.
[8:36] Now his wife who was in the passenger
[8:39] seat same accident same car had a
[8:42] completely different response. She
[8:44] reacted like she did at the time of the
[8:47] car accident. She froze. She was in
[8:50] shock. She felt disconnected from her
[8:53] body. She was unable to move. And she
[8:56] said if it hadn't been for her husband,
[8:58] she wouldn't have been able to get out
[8:59] of the car.
[9:01] There was no increase in heart rate.
[9:06] And her brain looked like this. It was
[9:09] blank.
[9:11] And so this taught me immediately, whoa.
[9:15] Right? People can have very different
[9:17] responses to trauma.
[9:20] And without really capturing the
[9:22] firsterson experience in combination
[9:25] with the brain imaging, these results
[9:28] wouldn't have made very little sense.
[9:31] And so what does that teach us?
[9:33] combining first person experience with
[9:36] the neurobiology or whatever biological
[9:39] marker
[9:41] I think it doesn't only bring in the
[9:44] suffering of an individual but it makes
[9:48] our ability to understand brain mind and
[9:52] body
[9:53] much stronger right because if we
[9:56] average these two scans it wouldn't make
[9:58] any sense and I think it also points to
[10:02] the importance of really looking at both
[10:04] qualitative and quantitative data and I
[10:08] think this has been discussed earlier in
[10:09] the retreat right so we have very
[10:11] sophisticated analyses that can actually
[10:14] quantify the qualitative experience the
[10:18] first person experience in addition to
[10:21] looking at the numbers and the brain
[10:23] networks and then really bringing the
[10:25] two together
[10:28] what are some additional problems that I
[10:31] think are struggling in neuroscience and
[10:34] medicine and mental health.
[10:37] And that is that I think the brain body
[10:40] disconnect is still alive and well,
[10:44] right? And when we think about our
[10:46] society as a whole, embodiment
[10:50] is something that we have a lot of
[10:51] difficulties with. And of course, this
[10:53] is something we try to capture here in
[10:56] these retreats.
[10:58] But what can help us to overcome this
[11:01] brain body disconnect?
[11:04] Where do we need to look? What do we
[11:07] need to think about in neuroscience and
[11:09] medicine?
[11:11] What is one thing that we're missing?
[11:16] And I think one thing we're missing is
[11:19] what some brain researchers in a recent
[11:22] uh neuroscience review have called the
[11:25] fruit below the rind. And what they're
[11:28] referring to is the brain stem and
[11:32] cerebellum,
[11:33] the deepest part of the brain. Some of
[11:35] us will call it the survival brain that
[11:38] has profound influences on all other
[11:41] levels of the brain, but also on the
[11:43] body. And it's an area of the brain that
[11:47] we have largely ignored. A because it's
[11:51] so difficult to study with imaging and
[11:54] it's becoming easier, but it's been very
[11:56] difficult. But also, I think because
[11:58] we're human and we're so impressed with
[12:01] ourselves and our cortex and so I think
[12:04] we've often thought, oh, this primitive
[12:06] low thing, you know, we don't have to
[12:08] worry about that. We'll stick, you know,
[12:11] with the human part of the brain.
[12:15] And I think what's so critical about
[12:18] this lowest part of the brain, the brain
[12:20] stem and the midbrain, that it's really
[12:22] the intersection between the brain and
[12:24] body. And I think this can really help
[12:27] us to reunite brain, mind and body.
[12:32] And in a recent review in nature
[12:34] neuroscience, they've also reminded us
[12:37] that, you know, this has been left out
[12:40] of our understanding of cognitive
[12:43] neuroscience and that really there's an
[12:45] urgent need to bring the whole brain and
[12:48] the body into the study of cognitive
[12:50] neuroscience.
[12:52] But we are uh really dedicating this
[12:55] afternoon to psychological trauma,
[12:57] right? Which is really somebody being
[13:00] under imminent threat all the time. And
[13:05] so here I think the brain stem and
[13:07] midbrain becomes even more important
[13:10] because as we know from research now is
[13:14] that as threat approaches us and when
[13:17] threat is imminent which is always the
[13:20] case in the aftermath of trauma we see a
[13:23] shift in what happens in the brain. And
[13:27] so as threat becomes more imminent, it
[13:30] appears that the midbrain, specifically
[13:32] the perryodactyl gray, takes the
[13:35] driver's seat and the cortex, the more
[13:38] human part of the brain, takes the back
[13:41] seat. Now why is that?
[13:44] Our cortex is much slower and usually
[13:47] takes about a 100 milliseconds to
[13:49] process information. Whereas our brain
[13:52] stem can react within 16 milliseconds.
[13:58] And so when it's about survival, we have
[14:00] to react very quickly in order to
[14:03] increase our chance of survival. And
[14:05] often, you know, relying on the cortex
[14:08] is not quick enough.
[14:10] And so I love this research by Mobs who
[14:13] has stated that imminent danger results
[14:16] in fast likely hardwired defensive
[14:19] reactions mediated by the midbrain. And
[14:23] this is really about the brain adapting
[14:26] to inescapable threat and reacting very
[14:30] quickly to help us stay alive. So it's
[14:32] reacting without thinking.
[14:37] So now let's turn our attention to how
[14:41] we perceive threat versus safety. And of
[14:44] course threat is at the core of trauma.
[14:49] And so when we think about how we
[14:51] experience threat or safety, it's really
[14:53] experienced through our senses, right?
[14:56] Senses that come in from the body and
[14:59] senses that come in through the
[15:01] environment.
[15:04] and just some gross basic anatomy. Of
[15:07] course, the senses, the different
[15:09] sensory pathways from the body that
[15:11] really inform us about what's going on
[15:13] in the body, they enter at the level of
[15:16] the brain stem.
[15:18] And most external sensations except for
[15:21] smell again enter at the level of the
[15:24] midbrain, the superior caliculus.
[15:28] They first enter the brain. And so this
[15:31] is where the brain takes in sensations.
[15:35] And so this is also the first line of
[15:38] response. The brain stem has to make
[15:41] sense of these sensations at a brain
[15:43] stem level, at a preconscious level, and
[15:46] determine whether these sensations are
[15:49] safe or unsafe.
[15:53] And so what we're learning now if at the
[15:56] level of the brain stem these sensations
[15:58] are determined to be unsafe,
[16:01] we stay at lower levels of the brain in
[16:05] these subcortical loops. We react
[16:07] without thinking because that's quick
[16:11] and that increases our chance of
[16:13] survival.
[16:15] Whereas if those sensations are deemed
[16:18] as safe, they then flow to the level of
[16:23] the cortex where they can profoundly
[16:26] affect all human functions including
[16:29] embodiment, agency,
[16:32] connection,
[16:34] having a sense of the present, thinking
[16:37] and planning, emotion regulation, as
[16:40] well as curiosity.
[16:43] But when threat is always imminent, as
[16:45] it is in the aftermath of trauma, we
[16:47] stay at these lower subcortical loops
[16:50] that are quick that help us to react
[16:53] without thinking in order to increase
[16:56] our survival.
[16:58] And so I think we can really see trauma
[17:01] as an insult to the senses. Right?
[17:04] Again, we take in trauma through the
[17:07] senses
[17:10] and then these sensations at the level
[17:13] of the brain stem couple with arousal
[17:16] and raw emotion. And Frank will talk
[17:20] about this in much more detail.
[17:23] And so the survival brain, the brain
[17:25] stem and midbrain is where these
[17:27] sensations, arousal and raw emotion meet
[17:31] preconciously
[17:32] and can start to deeply affect us
[17:35] without really knowing what is affecting
[17:38] us. And often this is trauma we
[17:40] experience preverbally,
[17:43] right? We're haunted by experiences,
[17:47] bodily experiences
[17:49] that we have no meaning for. And I think
[17:52] one explanation likely is that we're
[17:55] caught in these lower subcortical loops
[17:58] that don't fully connect or optimally
[18:01] connect to the cortex that allows us to
[18:03] make sense and make meaning.
[18:07] And so I want to take it a step further
[18:09] and we've heard a lot in this retreat as
[18:12] the brain the brain as a predictive
[18:15] organ. Right? So we want to use these
[18:19] incoming sensations
[18:21] that's what the brain needs in order to
[18:24] predict and update what's going to
[18:27] happen. Right? And in a normal
[18:30] functioning brain, you know, if I leave
[18:32] the meditation hall today and I trip,
[18:38] the next few times I'm leaving the
[18:40] meditation hall, my brain, my cortex is
[18:42] going to update,
[18:44] right? The sensory information of danger
[18:47] and I'm going to be much more cautious,
[18:50] you know, the next few times I leave the
[18:52] meditation hall. But after three or four
[18:55] times when things have gone well, you
[18:57] know, I skip out of the meditation hall
[19:00] and my brain updates again that okay,
[19:04] you're safe again.
[19:06] But this is not how trauma works, right?
[19:09] I think in trauma, what we see is that
[19:12] the brain has a real difficult time
[19:14] updating, right? It can't update when we
[19:18] get safe information about the present.
[19:21] it has real difficulty updating and
[19:24] helping us know, okay, things are safe
[19:26] now. It's 2025.
[19:29] You're no longer being hurt.
[19:32] And so I want to share a recent study uh
[19:34] from our group uh that's going to be
[19:36] published in nature mental health that I
[19:39] think really outlines that inability of
[19:42] the brain to predict and the cerebellum
[19:46] which is tightly connected to the
[19:49] midbrain and receives a lot of that
[19:51] sensory input seems to be a hub that
[19:55] really uh prevents this updating and
[19:59] this predictive function of the brain.
[20:00] bra in post-traumatic stress disorder.
[20:04] So, I just want you to take a look at
[20:07] this image
[20:09] and uh this is the brain uh functioning
[20:15] during recall of traumatic memory. So,
[20:17] we're pushing the brain, we're stressing
[20:19] the brain
[20:21] and uh I just want you to focus on that
[20:24] blue line. So blue means there is a lack
[20:29] of connectivity compared to
[20:31] non-traumatized
[20:32] healthy individuals.
[20:35] And where we're seeing this blue line
[20:37] emerge from is predominantly from the
[20:39] cerebellum.
[20:41] So it doesn't get information to the
[20:44] higher levels of the brain including the
[20:46] cortex and the phalamus.
[20:49] So the brain is not synchronized. And
[20:52] because the cerebellum is so important
[20:54] in this prediction and helping get
[20:58] sensory information to the cortex where
[21:00] the cortex can update, I think this is a
[21:04] huge problem in PTSD that leaves people,
[21:08] you know, in these lower subcortical
[21:10] loops.
[21:12] What's happening at the same time is
[21:14] that we're also getting this
[21:17] hyperconivity. So too much connectivity
[21:21] in the cortex
[21:23] but these two systems are functioning
[21:25] independently
[21:28] and so we lose this capacity to update
[21:33] now of course this is something we want
[21:35] to bring back in treatment right and so
[21:39] we're extremely grateful to Frank Coran
[21:42] who's developed deep brain reorienting
[21:45] which is a treatment I've been treating
[21:46] traumatized individuals for 25 years.
[21:50] That's really humbled me. And we have
[21:54] interim results from our deep brain
[21:57] reorienting study.
[22:00] And I'm just going to move over here.
[22:04] And I think there's a lot of hope here.
[22:07] And what you're seeing is the blue band,
[22:10] which is lack of connectivity.
[22:15] Now, when we're looking at individuals
[22:17] who have post-traumatic stress,
[22:20] when we compare them before and after
[22:24] treatment, during recall of traumatic
[22:27] memories,
[22:28] that connectivity comes back online.
[22:31] It's now red.
[22:34] And what that could really mean is that
[22:37] we're restoring the capacity of the
[22:40] brain to predict and to update to the
[22:43] present to safety.
[22:46] And what we're seeing qualitatively in
[22:48] our subjects who are really individuals
[22:51] who've been suffering for years and
[22:53] years is that often it's the first time
[22:58] they're able to reinhabit their body.
[23:01] And it's been really touching to observe
[23:03] that and we're hoping to really combine
[23:07] these qualitative data with our
[23:09] neuroiming data. But I think this
[23:12] provides incredible hope that we're
[23:14] starting to be able to reconnect the
[23:17] brain. I think to restore this
[23:19] predictive capacity and allow the brain
[23:22] to update the information to the
[23:25] present.
[23:28] So what are the implications for
[23:30] therapy? Right? We've been talking about
[23:32] the importance of the brain stem. That's
[23:35] where raw
[23:37] emotion, arousal, and these sensations,
[23:40] how we take in the world, meet.
[23:44] And a lot of our treatments really
[23:46] intervene at a cognitive level, right?
[23:48] So, we're working with thoughts.
[23:51] And often our patients come in and they
[23:54] tell us, "I know it was not my fault."
[23:58] Right? So, we've worked with the
[23:59] thoughts, but they say, "But I can't
[24:02] stop feeling it. It keeps tearing me up
[24:05] inside."
[24:07] And we would hypothesize that this
[24:09] presentation is exactly where the brain
[24:13] stem is still very much affected. And we
[24:16] haven't gotten to the foundation of the
[24:18] trauma response, which we would
[24:20] hypothesize is deep within the brain
[24:23] stem and midbrain.
[24:26] And this takes us into the next two
[24:29] parts of this talk which are really
[24:31] about targeting directly deep brain
[24:34] circuits and a number of body oriented
[24:37] treatments can do this. Neuro feedback
[24:40] we've shown can get at this deep brain
[24:43] level and of course Seaburn has devoted
[24:46] her career to neuro feedback and how
[24:48] that can help shift you know the some of
[24:51] the major brain networks
[24:54] and now we have Frank's deep brain
[24:56] reorienting which is a psychotherapy
[24:58] he'll explain in detail that targets
[25:01] directly these deep brain circuits
[25:05] and so by targeting these deep brain
[25:08] circuits We're really intervening in a
[25:11] bottomup way, right? We're going to the
[25:14] root of the problem. And by really
[25:18] targeting the root at this deep level of
[25:21] the brain, the brain can reorganize from
[25:24] bottom up and again then up down and it
[25:29] can also have a profound effect on the
[25:30] body.
[25:32] But I think a lot of us are still
[25:34] confused about, you know, what bottomup
[25:37] treatment really is. And I I think Frank
[25:40] has really beautifully uh described
[25:43] that. So I'm just going to go through
[25:46] some thoughts about what bottomup
[25:48] treatment really is and then over to
[25:50] Frank.
[25:54] The more we try to do bottom-up therapy,
[25:58] the more we risk disrupting its natural
[26:01] unfolding.
[26:04] What is called for is not technique but
[26:07] attunement.
[26:09] A kind of felt listening that lets
[26:12] something emerge in its own time,
[26:16] on its own terms
[26:18] before interpretation,
[26:21] before knowing.
[26:26] And with that in mind, we're going to go
[26:29] deep into the brain at a preconscious
[26:31] level before interpretation, before
[26:34] knowing.
[26:41] Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you so much,
[26:44] Ruth. This is very uh it feels very
[26:47] hopeful.
[26:48] Feels like there's something new in the
[26:51] world of uh yeah, how to address these
[26:55] deeply stuck patterns of of of traumatic
[26:59] remembering or yeah, traumatic stress.
[27:02] So, let us enjoy the sound of the bell.
[27:05] We can also be
[27:07] uh feeling our bodies, feeling our
[27:10] nervous systems,
[27:12] letting everything we've heard settle.
[27:19] [Music]
[27:29] [Music]
[27:29] [Laughter]
[28:17] [Music]
[28:26] I'll just check the sound first of all.
[28:29] Is that am I audible at the back?
[28:33] I hope understandable too even with my
[28:36] pronounced accent. But uh
[28:40] um so it's just first of all like to say
[28:45] that it is a great honor to be here,
[28:48] great privilege to be here. So I'm very
[28:50] grateful for the the invitation to be
[28:54] here to present today even in this heat.
[29:06] So I'm a gen I I'm a general
[29:09] psychiatrist and for many years worked
[29:12] in a a a national health service in
[29:15] Scotland and over many years was
[29:20] preoccupied with the question of why
[29:23] early life adversity would lead to an
[29:27] increase in suicidality.
[29:30] And many people did not complete the
[29:33] suicide but lived with a constant
[29:38] desire to be dead or an impulse to be
[29:41] dead. And it it always seemed to me that
[29:45] the most severe suicidality
[29:48] was associated with the most severe
[29:52] abuse or neglect in early life.
[29:57] So my approach I trained in many
[29:59] different um trauma therapy models
[30:03] trying to understand Yeah.
[30:08] All right.
[30:09] Okay. Good.
[30:11] Okay. Yeah. How is that now? Yeah. Good.
[30:15] Thank you. That's a little easier to
[30:19] Yeah. Good. Um so yeah, so I was curious
[30:24] about this link between early life
[30:28] adversity and later suicidality
[30:31] and the the research literature did not
[30:34] really give ideas on the associations.
[30:41] So my way of approaching it with all the
[30:44] different trauma therapy modalities was
[30:47] trying to understand
[30:50] everything that came from the patients
[30:53] that I was treating in terms of brain
[30:56] functioning
[30:58] and brain dysfunctioning.
[31:01] So it meant that
[31:04] I didn't have scanners um to be able to
[31:08] check out the the theories as I do now
[31:13] thanks to Ruth and her team. um but
[31:17] could get a sense of whether theories
[31:20] and hypotheses were valid or not from a
[31:25] clinical perspective
[31:27] and many of them I had to discard as
[31:30] rubbish. So but just kept working trying
[31:34] to understand the link between the early
[31:38] trauma and the later life distress
[31:42] especially when it involved an increase
[31:44] in suicidality.
[31:51] So the end result after
[31:54] working with many different modalities
[31:56] was developing deep brain reorienting
[32:00] and this um this met some criteria that
[32:06] I had for an effective treatment because
[32:11] it could be used in the most severely
[32:14] distressed patients. Other modalities
[32:18] were often effective but didn't work in
[32:22] the most severely distressed or couldn't
[32:25] be used without an extensive period of
[32:28] stabilization.
[32:30] So this formed a way to work with even
[32:35] the most um severely distressed.
[32:39] And if there's a way of working with the
[32:42] trauma history, then there's hope for
[32:45] the future. Even a minimal change can
[32:49] imply the possibility of further change
[32:53] and therefore the possibility of healing
[32:56] over time. So it may take years, but at
[33:00] least there's a way of moving forward
[33:03] session by session to to get to to the
[33:08] healing of the the deepest wounding that
[33:12] had occurred in very early life.
[33:23] The first draft of slides for today was
[33:27] rejected by Seburn who said it was far
[33:31] too clinical. And so I hope that this
[33:34] draft is is more suited to this audience
[33:39] because the focus is on suffering,
[33:43] the reasons for suffering and the
[33:46] pathway to healing from suffering.
[33:49] And in brain stem terms, we're looking
[33:53] at what activates, what intensifies
[33:57] experiences,
[33:59] what makes traumatic experiences
[34:02] traumatic.
[34:04] And I think that what we are finding is
[34:09] that the brain stem arousal,
[34:12] the shock, the horror
[34:15] intensifies
[34:17] the emotional response and also can
[34:20] intensify the memories so that people
[34:24] remember in flashbacks the horrors that
[34:28] have occurred to them.
[34:30] And now I think that those flashbacks
[34:33] are there because at the inception of
[34:36] the memory there was a high level of
[34:39] shock and this level of shock was in the
[34:43] brain stem. And if we're going to clear
[34:46] the clinical syndrome, we need to get
[34:49] back to the shock right at the beginning
[34:53] of the traumatic experience.
[34:59] And often that's out of awareness,
[35:03] especially if it's from very early life,
[35:06] if it's from early neglect,
[35:09] abandonment and infancy,
[35:12] um traumas in the early neonatal period.
[35:17] We've got no episodic memory of these
[35:19] things and early attachment wounding.
[35:24] We're going in through present day
[35:26] activating stimuli to find ways to get
[35:30] into what's been stored in the brain
[35:33] stem that's causing continuing pain and
[35:38] distress.
[35:47] And I I've always um been impressed by
[35:53] the healing capacity of humans. And I
[35:59] think it's important in doing trauma
[36:02] therapy that we do not think of the
[36:05] trauma therapist doing something to the
[36:09] client that gets the client better
[36:12] because we're trying to liberate a
[36:15] healing process that's intrinsic to the
[36:19] human condition but has got blocked in
[36:22] some way.
[36:24] And to help to
[36:27] be in that healing process, it's
[36:30] important for the therapist
[36:33] to be present, to be here now when with
[36:38] the patient, to be attentive at the deep
[36:43] emotional level rather than working at
[36:48] the upper level, at the cognitive
[36:51] meaning making level. So, we're doing
[36:54] our best to get into this uh deep brain
[36:58] for the reorienting there.
[37:06] One of the beneficial things that's come
[37:09] from the development of DBR is the idea
[37:14] of locating the self.
[37:18] And this idea came mainly from a book by
[37:21] Greg Fionne who described brain systems
[37:25] for
[37:27] us knowing where we are in this moment
[37:31] and brain systems for what we are
[37:34] encountering. And of course the brain
[37:37] systems for where and what readily come
[37:40] together. But trauma memories are about
[37:44] what has happened. So we look to find a
[37:49] way to separate out the sense of wheness
[37:53] and nowness from what has happened. And
[37:58] that's given us this idea of locating
[38:01] the where self as a way of of being here
[38:06] now without intrusion of um
[38:12] thoughts and images and memories and so
[38:15] on.
[38:20] And for for self location we use we do
[38:27] not mention relaxation we do not mention
[38:30] calmness we don't use breathing we're
[38:34] focused purely on here now
[38:38] the sense of gravity holding you in your
[38:41] chair just notice what it's like that
[38:44] you don't float off to the ceiling.
[38:48] You can sense the direction of gravity,
[38:51] the up and down line.
[38:54] Everyone, I think, unless they're in
[38:56] orbit around the earth, is going to have
[39:00] that capacity for the sensing into the
[39:04] direction of gravity. And we can use
[39:06] that for the sense of being here. Now we
[39:12] can also use the axes of orienting of
[39:14] the body. The head totail axis of the
[39:18] spine, the side to side, the upper and
[39:21] lower, the front to back. But the the
[39:25] key thing is to find ways that suit the
[39:30] individual of getting into this sense of
[39:33] the body, how it's present, how it's
[39:37] balanced, how it's positioned.
[39:40] in this moment now
[39:47] and in DBR once we have the orienting
[39:51] tension then we're looking for sorry
[39:55] once we have the W self then we're
[39:58] looking for the orienting tension this
[40:01] is something that comes in to the
[40:03] forehead the muscles around the eyes or
[40:06] the muscles at the base of the skull
[40:10] momentarily before any traumatic
[40:14] response.
[40:15] And I think it works well as a as an
[40:18] anchor for processing
[40:20] because it's there in the forehead
[40:24] around the eyes or the base of the skull
[40:26] before any trauma response.
[40:31] And the next response is the shock that
[40:34] I'll expand on. and then the affect the
[40:38] the basic emotional response.
[40:43] So this is our key sequence the
[40:46] separating out of the shock
[40:50] after the activating stimulus and after
[40:52] we obtain the orienting tension from the
[40:56] affect that follows.
[41:02] when I was trying to find um papers of
[41:07] relevance to
[41:09] mindfulness practitioners, I happened
[41:12] across this paper which is really
[41:14] useful. So I'm I'm glad that I was
[41:17] stimulated to search for it because this
[41:21] paper brings together details of the the
[41:25] speed of the response.
[41:29] You can see that in the first 20
[41:32] milliseconds after a stimulus we can
[41:35] have a response from the superior
[41:38] caliculus
[41:40] that gives us our orienting tension.
[41:43] Then we get the activation of the locus
[41:46] ceruius which gives us our shock and
[41:50] then the cortex comes online at some
[41:53] point for conscious awareness but also
[41:56] the periqueductal gray for the basic
[42:00] emotional response.
[42:08] So just to show where we are in brain
[42:11] stem terms,
[42:18] you can see the three areas of the brain
[42:21] stem, the midbrain, the pawns and then
[42:25] the the medelo blangata. And right at
[42:29] the top of the midbrain is the area of
[42:31] the superior caliculus. This is from
[42:35] where we orient to stimuli such as
[42:40] sounds or um visual stimuli.
[42:45] This is from where we get the orienting
[42:47] tension before any trauma response.
[42:57] And you can see that the the layers of
[42:59] the caliculi that take in the
[43:02] information about the stimuli are
[43:05] adjacent to the columns of the
[43:07] periqueductal gray from where we get our
[43:11] basic affective and defensive responses.
[43:21] So shock is happening within I think 50
[43:25] milliseconds
[43:27] which may be why there hasn't been much
[43:30] focus on it before now and I if we look
[43:35] at this in millisecond terms
[43:41] we can see that shock coming in within
[43:45] 50 milliseconds let's say with the
[43:47] activation of the locus ceruius.
[43:54] Then we get the activation of the
[43:56] peracqueductal gray for the affective
[43:59] and defensive responses
[44:04] and then we get the peripheral autonomic
[44:06] nervous system changes.
[44:09] And many trauma models have focused on
[44:13] the peripheral autonomic nervous system
[44:15] change and we're saying that's too late.
[44:20] All that's happening critical to the
[44:24] clinical syndrome that follows is
[44:28] happening potentially in those first 50
[44:32] milliseconds.
[44:35] And I'm hoping that one of these days
[44:37] there'll be a study of the use of DBR in
[44:42] acute situations like war zones because
[44:45] what I've seen working with people in
[44:48] war zones is that if the day before the
[44:51] session they're they've been bombed,
[44:54] their neighbors have been killed, even
[44:57] the day after if we're using DBR, we can
[45:01] get a a reduction of the shock of the
[45:05] events and I hope that reduces the risk
[45:08] of long-term PTSD and I hope that'll be
[45:12] studied.
[45:17] So the shock manifests often
[45:21] with nothing visible on the surface but
[45:24] we slow down enough to ask about it. Is
[45:28] there a shiver, a shudder, a jolt?
[45:33] a gasp,
[45:35] a blow to the chest or the abdomen.
[45:39] These fleeting sensations
[45:43] are what we slow down enough to pick up
[45:46] before the emotional or the defensive
[45:49] responses come in.
[45:54] And we think that that's important for
[45:57] the later development of PTSD, but also
[46:00] of syndromes of chronic derealization,
[46:04] depersonalization,
[46:07] hyper vigilance to threat,
[46:10] sleep disturbances,
[46:12] and intense affective responses.
[46:19] and shock in early life, shock in an
[46:22] early attachment relationship, the shock
[46:26] in the infant who reaches out to the
[46:28] mother and and from whom the mother
[46:32] pulls away. That kind of shock we argue
[46:37] has a long-term effect at the brain stem
[46:41] level and a long-term effect on the the
[46:45] activations then at the upper levels of
[46:47] the brain.
[46:51] So the locus ceruius has got this
[46:54] capacity to produce activation
[46:58] throughout the brain and it can also
[47:02] contribute to emotional memories and
[47:06] traumatic memories.
[47:12] And when we pick up the shock, we urge
[47:16] people to be with it, to slow down,
[47:20] to just be in this moment with those
[47:24] shock sensations.
[47:26] Let us be together with them, holding
[47:29] them, and letting the process
[47:48] So um when I was coming here I thought
[47:51] if shock isn't in Buddhist psychology
[47:55] does it mean that I have to say to a
[47:57] group of Buddhists that they need to
[48:00] slow down more
[48:03] that they need to be more mindful?
[48:06] But I thought there must be another
[48:08] explanation.
[48:10] And I'm so relieved here. I know you're
[48:13] a nonviolent audience, but nevertheless,
[48:16] it's a relief to find that there is an
[48:19] alternative explanation.
[48:21] Long-term meditation alters the basic
[48:25] functioning of the locus ceruius. So
[48:29] that I think that long-term meditators
[48:34] are more able to be with a preffrontal
[48:38] cortex awareness of the abstract and an
[48:42] enhanced sensory awareness in the same
[48:46] moment. And perhaps that leads to shock
[48:51] um shock proofing, shock resistance to
[48:54] some extent.
[48:56] But I do hope that anyone who
[49:00] um is using this model, who learns this
[49:04] model, applies some of the principles of
[49:07] slowing down and being just being with.
[49:18] And after the shock dissipates, then we
[49:21] get the pain. And it's often the pain of
[49:23] aloneeness, abandonment,
[49:26] rejection, humiliation,
[49:30] betrayal, injustice.
[49:33] If people have difficulties with
[49:36] emotions like sadness or rage or shame
[49:40] or fear, the likelihood is that there's
[49:43] unprocessed shock and pain underneath.
[49:47] So, we look to get back to process
[49:50] what's underneath.
[49:55] I use this idea of the compass of pain
[49:59] to to illustrate that point that if
[50:02] there's a lot of pain inside
[50:05] the the emotional responses are
[50:07] intensified by the shock and the
[50:11] emotional pain inside.
[50:16] and Anna Halberg pointed me to the the
[50:20] big bell and uh some writings there
[50:24] which I thought were lovely and so I
[50:26] just wanted to quote because this is
[50:28] what I think is needed for the DBR
[50:32] therapist.
[50:35] We will sit and listen in order to
[50:38] understand.
[50:40] We will sit and listen so attentively
[50:43] that we will be able to hear what the
[50:45] other person is saying and also what is
[50:49] being left unsaid.
[50:52] We know that just by listening deeply we
[50:55] already alleviate
[50:57] a great deal of pain and suffering in
[51:01] the other person.
[51:03] And we argue that when we've made it a
[51:06] really specific experience, once we've
[51:09] identified this sequence, when we've got
[51:12] to underlying shock and pain that are
[51:15] really specific, then that being with
[51:19] allows the healing at the deepest level.
[51:31] Aloneeness is not good for us, it seems.
[51:35] And a paper in nature last month,
[51:39] admittedly on rats rather than humans,
[51:42] did show that there are neurons in the
[51:45] hypothalamus that respond to isolation
[51:49] and neurons that respond to reunion.
[51:53] So we um we think that when people have
[51:59] experienced intense isolation and are
[52:02] then again in communication,
[52:05] it's working at the potentially at the
[52:09] hypothalamic level where there is this
[52:12] need in an area that's also associ
[52:16] associated with hunger and thirst and
[52:19] temperature control.
[52:27] So we in deep brain reorienting
[52:30] are turning towards pain that has been
[52:35] intolerable.
[52:37] If it's a pain from a neglected infant,
[52:41] the pain feels unbearable.
[52:44] It feels never ending.
[52:47] It feels that it will never change. that
[52:50] there is no possibility of healing.
[52:54] And we don't try to do anything but to
[52:58] be with it to allow a turning towards it
[53:02] that allows a relief of this pain and a
[53:08] healing from the being with and the
[53:11] orienting towards it.
[53:15] And even when it takes a long time, if
[53:18] we can get into the origins of the shock
[53:22] and horror and pain
[53:25] and identify them and turn towards them
[53:29] and be with them, we're demonstrating
[53:33] the origins of the suffering and we're
[53:36] demonstrating the capacity to turn
[53:40] towards it, to be with it, and to allow
[53:45] the healing of I think even the deepest
[53:49] pain and distress.
[53:52] And that for me gives hope. Um that even
[53:56] when people have suffered what to me
[54:00] seem like unbearable horrific traumas
[54:05] that there is a way that we can help.
[54:07] there is something we can offer um to
[54:11] and as as part of a path to healing.
[54:19] Thank you for bearing with me in my
[54:21] accent in this intense heat.
[54:28] Thank you. Thank you so much.
[54:32] Thank you so much Frank for this
[54:34] wonderful presentation which flowed on
[54:36] so beautifully from Ruth's. I I think uh
[54:39] many people will have already been
[54:41] noticing some of the connections to the
[54:44] type of practice but also the way of
[54:47] practice here in Plum Village. And what
[54:49] really struck me was um
[54:53] how uh sometimes when we do the group
[54:56] sharing practice the which is really a
[54:58] listening practice
[55:01] um primarily what we're trying to well I
[55:05] don't know about everybody else but
[55:07] usually when when I guide people in deep
[55:08] listening I've kind of instinctively
[55:11] gravitated towards
[55:13] um inviting people not to be thinking
[55:17] about the words that they're hearing but
[55:20] to be in this mode of feeling what
[55:22] they're feeling as they are hearing
[55:25] what's being said and that I so for the
[55:29] therapist to sort of stay at the felt
[55:31] sensory level not at the minute level of
[55:34] meaning making that really struck me um
[55:37] in in what you were saying and and also
[55:42] uh just that you know the methodology
[55:44] that Tai offered us is a community
[55:48] methodology everything is based for us
[55:50] on on on being together and that itself
[55:54] being an experience of he healing so
[55:57] yeah it's wonderful to hear echoes of
[55:59] that in in what you share and I look
[56:01] forward to maybe after sin's sharing we
[56:03] can also have opportunities to reflect
[56:05] more on that and other things thank you
[56:08] so much Frank let's uh once again let go
[56:13] of the meaning making and thinking and
[56:16] theory part of our brain and just come
[56:19] back to the sensing and feeling the
[56:22] vibrations of the sound of the bell.
[56:38] [Laughter]
[56:38] [Music]
[57:22] There's a whole new meaning to meltdown.
[57:28] Thank you.
[57:32] Uh, I want to um dedicate my talk to
[57:36] Tai, my teacher,
[57:39] and to all of us who are traumatized
[57:43] people. I hope you're beginning to
[57:46] understand how amazing you are, that you
[57:49] have lived with these brains and and are
[57:52] thriving yet.
[57:55] Okay.
[57:58] Um, if you were to get an email from me,
[58:00] thank you. It's going to be a better way
[58:02] to do it. If you were going to get an
[58:04] email from me,
[58:07] um, the tagline would always be, uh, a
[58:11] quote from Tesla, Nicola Tesla. If you
[58:14] want to find the secrets of the
[58:16] universe,
[58:18] uh, think in terms of energy,
[58:21] frequency, and vibration.
[58:24] And that's what I think um that's where
[58:29] I've come to in understanding a lot of
[58:32] what's going on in the brain. I do neuro
[58:35] feedback primarily although I'm now very
[58:38] engaged with DBR because it's an
[58:41] extraordinary therapy and I what Frank
[58:44] was was suggesting in this is that shock
[58:47] is the core component where it's easy to
[58:50] think of of of
[58:53] uh shock and frequency together right if
[58:55] you put your finger in a socket which I
[58:58] somehow did often as a child I don't
[59:00] know how that but so I have the
[59:02] experience of shock
[59:04] uh of that order too. Um the uh you you
[59:08] understand that the frequency of shock
[59:11] would reorder the frequency domain of
[59:14] the brain. And so it is with um Frank uh
[59:19] is is discovering neuro feedback. I'm
[59:22] discovering DBR and Ruth is researching
[59:24] the whole package. And we're bringing it
[59:27] here within the context, at least for
[59:29] me, of a deep Buddhist practice.
[59:33] Um so in 1990 I came here um and uh we
[59:39] had a um a tea uh there were 30 of us in
[59:44] one of the buildings I probably don't
[59:45] even recognize anymore which one with we
[59:48] had a tea with Tai and we all drank tea
[59:51] and I think the only one who was really
[59:54] drinking tea was Tai. I think the rest
[59:55] of us were performing drinking tea
[59:58] because it's nerve-wracking. It was
[1:00:00] nerve-wracking. So um uh and everybody
[1:00:05] he then asked everybody to say why it
[1:00:07] was that they had come and people had
[1:00:10] profound stories. People had come from
[1:00:12] other monastic traditions. They had uh
[1:00:17] um had uh severe loss. They had you know
[1:00:21] the the stories that we hear the human
[1:00:24] stories.
[1:00:26] and he got to me and um I said, "Well, I
[1:00:31] don't I don't have a story. I don't What
[1:00:36] happened was is that a patient of mine
[1:00:39] brought in a um magazine called Common
[1:00:42] Boundary, which was a magazine devoted
[1:00:45] to the boundary that connected
[1:00:48] psychotherapy and spirituality.
[1:00:50] Unfortunately, that magazine is no
[1:00:52] longer um in print, but there was an
[1:00:56] article in there by Tiknad Han about
[1:00:59] psychotherapy. And um it was fine. Uh
[1:01:03] and but that wasn't what brought me to
[1:01:06] Plum Village. It was the photograph of
[1:01:09] Tai. And I told him this
[1:01:12] um and I felt like I had a very
[1:01:14] uninspired reason for being there.
[1:01:17] But um uh and we went around and at the
[1:01:21] end we had breakfast and then um Tai
[1:01:24] started his Dharma talk and what he said
[1:01:27] was um
[1:01:30] nobody came to the Buddha for his
[1:01:34] teaching.
[1:01:35] They came to the Buddha for his
[1:01:38] presence.
[1:01:40] And you you see how it ties in with what
[1:01:43] is already being talked about, right?
[1:01:46] the presence the importance of presence
[1:01:48] to uh each other.
[1:01:51] Um it this was a a a retreat on Buddhist
[1:01:56] psychology. It took me 10 days to
[1:01:58] recognize that that's what he was
[1:01:59] teaching. I didn't understand uh the the
[1:02:03] the um very first Dharma talk we had
[1:02:06] here willing was um about um Buddhist
[1:02:10] psychology
[1:02:11] and we would we would be um friends of
[1:02:15] mine and I would wander around and new
[1:02:17] friends and we'd say well um this is
[1:02:22] powerful to some of us it felt kind of
[1:02:24] like an acid trip and we'd be walking
[1:02:27] around and saying all of this is
[1:02:29] profound found the only part that can't
[1:02:31] be true is this no self thing that just
[1:02:34] can't be right that that's uh that was
[1:02:38] inconceivable.
[1:02:40] Um so the whole point
[1:02:43] maybe the whole point of Buddhist
[1:02:45] psychology is to underpin the con the
[1:02:49] possibility the reality of no self but
[1:02:52] that was what we found completely um
[1:02:55] impossible.
[1:02:56] I left the retreat uh saying that I
[1:03:01] would be practicing breathing for the
[1:03:04] next year thinking that I was making a
[1:03:06] huge commitment. And I won't surprise
[1:03:09] any of you to know that I'm still
[1:03:10] practicing breathing 35 years later. Um
[1:03:14] and I still benefit from it. The only
[1:03:16] time I don't benefit from it is when I
[1:03:18] do DBR, right? This has got a different
[1:03:21] mechanism of action. And that's a thing
[1:03:23] that I think that FAP and and um and
[1:03:26] Frank will explore together about how
[1:03:30] because to get to the brain stem you
[1:03:32] have to do a part you you can't you
[1:03:34] can't you you've got to allow something
[1:03:37] that breathing in a particular way
[1:03:39] doesn't allow.
[1:03:41] When I let when I went home, um I
[1:03:45] entered a very deep psychotherapy
[1:03:48] and um I came here as a trauma therapist
[1:03:51] and I entered this deep therapy to
[1:03:54] discover that I was a a traumatized
[1:03:58] person. Um and that that trauma was
[1:04:02] pretty severe
[1:04:04] and that I also suffered um a a
[1:04:08] different kind of no self. And I'm going
[1:04:10] to show you what this means.
[1:04:13] That show up. Yeah. Okay. So, that's
[1:04:16] that's the default mode network in a um
[1:04:20] non-traumatized brain. This is the the
[1:04:23] network in the human brain that gives
[1:04:27] allows this sort of the infrastructure
[1:04:30] of the sense of self and the sense of
[1:04:33] other
[1:04:35] in people who are deeply traumatized.
[1:04:41] This is what you This is what
[1:04:49] this is what you see. Instead,
[1:04:52] um this is the um uh uh there's no
[1:04:59] communication. There's no blood flow.
[1:05:01] That's oxygen and blood flow that you're
[1:05:04] seeing on the top slide.
[1:05:06] And when Ruth, this is Ruth's work, and
[1:05:08] when she first showed us this slide, I
[1:05:12] was I thought it was the most the single
[1:05:14] most profound slide I I'd ever seen. And
[1:05:18] I started to understand myself. Uh even
[1:05:22] though I didn't have a self yet to truly
[1:05:25] understand. Okay.
[1:05:28] All right. So I was in this profound
[1:05:32] therapy. I was inhabiting the form of
[1:05:35] meditation which I have to say was the
[1:05:37] only meditation I could do. I was not
[1:05:40] good at it. Um and I wasn't making a
[1:05:43] whole lot of um progress in
[1:05:45] psychotherapy either. Although my
[1:05:47] therapist I thought was fabulous and
[1:05:49] still do. Um and a fellow yogi um had me
[1:05:54] out for dinner and told me about this
[1:05:56] thing called neuro feedback
[1:05:58] which I was incredibly skeptical about.
[1:06:01] And I'll say the other thing I was
[1:06:03] incredibly skeptical about was when Ruth
[1:06:05] told me about DBR and I said that can't
[1:06:09] be that the only way you can get to a
[1:06:10] brain is through neuro feedback. But I
[1:06:13] had initially been very skeptical at
[1:06:15] neuro feedback too. So neuro feedback
[1:06:18] just in a I I just want to sort of
[1:06:21] highlight the main principles that I
[1:06:23] want you to pay attention to because
[1:06:24] they have to do with frequency.
[1:06:27] The brain organizes itself in
[1:06:30] frequencies.
[1:06:32] Okay. So you can just
[1:06:36] So this is actually my granddaughter
[1:06:38] Emily in her pajamas looking at a at a
[1:06:42] neuro feedback screen and what she's
[1:06:44] she's got um sensors on her head that
[1:06:47] are picking up the brain waves. they're
[1:06:50] amplified and picking up the brain waves
[1:06:52] and she can watch her brain waves
[1:06:54] scrolling and she can learn by a system
[1:06:58] of reward simple reward
[1:07:01] um to um change the way her brain fires
[1:07:05] to change the frequencies of her brain.
[1:07:08] So when um when for most people with uh
[1:07:13] early childhood trauma it is quieting
[1:07:16] it's quieting the nervous system. It's
[1:07:19] calming the nervous system that is
[1:07:21] required. It's helping the nervous
[1:07:23] system regulate itself because there
[1:07:26] haven't been adequate parenting to help
[1:07:30] this child learn to regulate herself.
[1:07:33] It's not true of my granddaughter
[1:07:35] thankfully.
[1:07:36] Um so uh so you can change uh which
[1:07:42] frequencies are most influential in the
[1:07:44] brain. We can do this with very simple
[1:07:47] feedback. This is sitting in front of a
[1:07:50] computer and watching your brain making
[1:07:52] brain waves. When you do,
[1:07:56] even a brain like the one that has no
[1:07:58] default mode network can develop a
[1:08:01] default mode network. It's it's it's a
[1:08:03] frequency band. It's a band of
[1:08:05] frequencies. It's a functional
[1:08:07] connectivity
[1:08:08] and it can learn to regulate itself.
[1:08:12] And when it does um the when it when the
[1:08:16] regulation starts to take hold the the
[1:08:18] default mode network forms and then you
[1:08:21] develop a sense of self.
[1:08:24] I have to say that as a psychotherapist
[1:08:27] I was very much engaged not not at the
[1:08:31] brain level. I knew nothing about the
[1:08:32] brain. This was all mine to me. And I
[1:08:35] was thinking, you know, what we needed
[1:08:36] to do was to help people develop a
[1:08:39] secure sense of self and a um uh an ego.
[1:08:47] And then so that was that it was good
[1:08:49] ego structure.
[1:08:52] Well, I I I just finished my graduate
[1:08:56] degree, paying off my graduate debt, and
[1:08:59] Buddhism starts coming into my life
[1:09:01] where they're talking about no self and
[1:09:06] um no ego. Th this was uh challenging.
[1:09:13] So these are the uh fundamental brain
[1:09:15] waves just so you get to see them. Um
[1:09:19] uh and um and all you do is you say okay
[1:09:24] you want you put into the computer oh I
[1:09:27] want this brain to make more alpha waves
[1:09:30] and they you the person will be rewarded
[1:09:33] when they make more alpha waves.
[1:09:34] Everybody right now it's hard to believe
[1:09:36] in this heat but you're all making these
[1:09:38] w all these waveforms all the time. you
[1:09:42] when you're rewarded to make a
[1:09:44] particular bandwidth, you'll make more
[1:09:45] of that. And this there's a state
[1:09:48] attached to all of those bandwidths that
[1:09:50] then uh you will start to inhabit that
[1:09:53] state or those that possibility for
[1:09:56] state
[1:09:58] change.
[1:10:00] So this is quote
[1:10:02] normal is a word we shouldn't use, but
[1:10:05] this is a an a a um unaffected uh EEG. I
[1:10:11] don't know how to get around normal. And
[1:10:13] um so that's a well functioning uh
[1:10:17] signal
[1:10:19] and this is the signal of a typical
[1:10:22] trauma survivor.
[1:10:24] They have to get
[1:10:27] to that.
[1:10:29] And so there's a series of inhibits and
[1:10:32] a series of rewards that allows the
[1:10:36] brain to move
[1:10:38] increasingly toward its own regulation
[1:10:40] and the toward this kind of signature.
[1:10:46] So um
[1:10:50] see where okay so this is also work by
[1:10:52] Ruth and um this is the the um
[1:10:58] brain stems influence this is pre and
[1:11:01] post one session of neuro feedback.
[1:11:06] The pre is the top and these are all
[1:11:10] severely traumatized people. And what
[1:11:14] you see with this red line at the bottom
[1:11:17] of the top slide is the P AG the
[1:11:20] perryqueductal gray that Frank was
[1:11:22] talking about Ruth 2 the that uh is
[1:11:26] calling the shots for the cortex. it it
[1:11:30] it's it's actually going to the amygdala
[1:11:33] and and it's activating this person.
[1:11:36] There's very little cortical
[1:11:37] involvement.
[1:11:39] After one session of neuro feedback,
[1:11:42] this whole for 80% of people uh in this
[1:11:46] study this whole thing changes and the
[1:11:51] cortex is now calling the shots over the
[1:11:55] brain stem. And what you've seen is uh a
[1:11:59] developmental course that takes
[1:12:01] typically 25 years for the prefrontal
[1:12:05] cortex to be in control of the um more
[1:12:10] primitive parts of the brain. I I
[1:12:12] presented this in South Africa and my
[1:12:15] granddaughter told me that the data was
[1:12:17] actually that women developed this uh
[1:12:20] control in prefrontal cortex at 23 and
[1:12:24] men at 25. So, I just wanted you to know
[1:12:27] that was the case. Okay. Um
[1:12:31] Okay. So, at some point along the way,
[1:12:33] um
[1:12:37] um so so I I was invited to to um Ruth
[1:12:42] invited me to come and meet this um
[1:12:45] person named Frank Corgan and um and who
[1:12:49] had this fabulous new therapy called
[1:12:52] deep brain reorienting. And I said
[1:12:55] politely, "No,
[1:12:58] it there's all these people interested
[1:13:01] in the brain and they don't how to reach
[1:13:04] the brain and I don't buy any of it and
[1:13:06] so I didn't go and as you're learning
[1:13:09] the more I'm skeptical of something, the
[1:13:11] more you should look at it." Okay.
[1:13:13] Right. Um and and now we are working
[1:13:18] I've been working with I've been
[1:13:20] experiencing DBR
[1:13:23] um with Frank and it's been a most
[1:13:25] illuminating sometimes most challenging
[1:13:28] uh process um but it it we're called
[1:13:34] upon to bring all of this together as I
[1:13:36] mentioned earlier and I think what shock
[1:13:40] does in the frequency domain of the
[1:13:42] brain is that it it um it just ampl it a
[1:13:47] amplifies everything. This is really
[1:13:48] what Frank was saying and it but if you
[1:13:51] just think about this as frequencies
[1:13:53] it's an it just makes sense right it
[1:13:56] just makes sense that if you had shock
[1:13:57] the shock would be the inciting moment
[1:14:01] that will it it's shock that will create
[1:14:03] this tsunami.
[1:14:06] So
[1:14:08] what was happening when I was here um
[1:14:12] which I was doing with very little
[1:14:14] awareness actually at the time but I was
[1:14:17] beginning my search for self and for no
[1:14:20] self. Um and I'm going to end my talk.
[1:14:26] Isn't are you grateful to hear those
[1:14:27] words? Okay. going to end my talk with
[1:14:31] um I want to read um a journal entry, a
[1:14:36] couple of journal entries actually from
[1:14:38] um my
[1:14:40] uh a retreat at the forest refuge in
[1:14:43] Massachusetts. Um and um and then end
[1:14:48] with a piece that u was first read to me
[1:14:51] by my dharma teacher there, Jill
[1:14:53] Shepard.
[1:14:55] Okay, so it's very hot. just float.
[1:14:58] Don't think too hard about this. Just
[1:15:00] let it, you know, let it it will the the
[1:15:04] seeds the more your the less your mind
[1:15:07] is actually engaged, the more the seeds
[1:15:09] are watered. So the sweat is watering
[1:15:11] seeds, too. Think of it that way. Okay,
[1:15:14] I will. Okay.
[1:15:17] Uh I felt quite centered as I headed out
[1:15:20] along the uneven path into the woods.
[1:15:25] Something is changing. This is after
[1:15:27] this is actually just so you know where
[1:15:29] I am. This is in 2023.
[1:15:32] I've had a year of of DBR and I'm um
[1:15:37] thinking about all the these practices
[1:15:40] of psychotherapy, the practice of of
[1:15:43] neuro feedback, the practice of
[1:15:45] meditation and the practice of DBR.
[1:15:49] Um I felt quite centered as I headed out
[1:15:51] along the uneven path into the woods.
[1:15:54] Something is changing. The trauma
[1:15:57] experience is dematerializing.
[1:16:01] Substance is draining out. I do not
[1:16:04] identify with it. And my identity is no
[1:16:07] longer of it. I experience not just
[1:16:12] absence of trauma, but in Buddhist
[1:16:15] terms, emptiness of self. I was
[1:16:19] wondering what this would mean for DBR
[1:16:21] when my foot caught on some roots and I
[1:16:24] fell.
[1:16:26] No damage done, but of course it got my
[1:16:28] attention as hitting the ground will do.
[1:16:33] My history will affect me even if I no
[1:16:36] longer identify with it. Even as the
[1:16:39] impact of the stories disappear,
[1:16:42] vibrations remain.
[1:16:44] The Buddha would have no language for
[1:16:46] frequency, but I think it's key to
[1:16:48] everything he taught. We are frequency.
[1:16:52] In DBR, it is shock. It's shock waves
[1:16:56] that overtake and overwhelm the
[1:16:58] frequencies of the brain. The brain
[1:17:01] organizes itself in these frequency
[1:17:03] patterns. It communicates to itself that
[1:17:07] way. It learns and holds what it learns
[1:17:10] in patterns of vibration.
[1:17:14] This whole Buddhist experiment devotes
[1:17:17] itself to knowing no self, to letting
[1:17:20] the ego go.
[1:17:22] What is the ego but the oscillation of
[1:17:25] fear?
[1:17:27] That's actually a thought that first
[1:17:29] came to me with Robert Thurman, who's a
[1:17:32] Buddhist teacher.
[1:17:35] Um, what is left when all of this truly
[1:17:37] drops away? oscillation,
[1:17:41] bare vibration, unadorned.
[1:17:45] But for all too many, that domain is
[1:17:47] shock is shot through with shock.
[1:17:51] That is what I think I experience today.
[1:17:55] That's what this all means
[1:18:00] uh uh for DBR. I could only reach these
[1:18:04] levels with brainwave training and uh
[1:18:09] DBR to that helps me know the reality of
[1:18:12] shock and to begin to dissolve it.
[1:18:16] And I wrote this I left this retreat uh
[1:18:20] and you'll hear why and this is just a
[1:18:22] letter to my teacher afterwards um uh
[1:18:26] commenting on it. I left because I had
[1:18:29] to stop meditating.
[1:18:31] I was going so deep in my sitting
[1:18:34] meditations
[1:18:35] discovering no mind at all. But then
[1:18:39] suddenly there would be a trauma
[1:18:41] intrusion and I just don't have the
[1:18:44] skill yet to manage this. The meditation
[1:18:47] legend as I've always heard it is that
[1:18:50] these states of breakthrough to the
[1:18:53] reality of no self
[1:18:55] obviate the terrible realities of the
[1:18:58] conditioned self
[1:19:01] at the very least that one wouldn't have
[1:19:03] to experience them simultaneously.
[1:19:07] I'm not complaining. It was
[1:19:09] extraordinary. But given the present
[1:19:11] instability of my CNS, not really imagin
[1:19:15] not really manageable.
[1:19:17] But it actually may have been the
[1:19:20] instability that made it all possible. I
[1:19:23] don't know. My mind was amenable to
[1:19:26] sitting. It was my brain saying, "No,
[1:19:29] no, enough for now." And I will know
[1:19:33] when to start again. So I was home and
[1:19:36] still not meditating and if it's
[1:19:39] premature I can train.
[1:19:42] Over time during the retreat the
[1:19:45] question came what in the cosmos is
[1:19:49] irreducible?
[1:19:51] The answer is vibration.
[1:19:53] In our individual universe when the
[1:19:56] brain learns to change the frequencies
[1:19:58] at which it vibrates agitation can
[1:20:01] diminish. tension can improve.
[1:20:05] All kinds of things can change.
[1:20:07] Autoimmune disorders, migraine headache,
[1:20:10] the sense of self itself. What we're
[1:20:13] seeing
[1:20:15] this happens um most readily with neuro
[1:20:18] feedback. There is feedback to the
[1:20:20] brain, but of course it can happen with
[1:20:22] meditation as well.
[1:20:25] We are negotiating this whole Buddhist
[1:20:27] project through the frequencies of our
[1:20:29] brain and body. But these frequencies
[1:20:32] remain after death. They cannot be
[1:20:35] buried. They cannot be burned. They
[1:20:39] cannot disappear.
[1:20:41] We may each have our own little
[1:20:43] individual
[1:20:45] frequency imprint in the vast cosmos of
[1:20:48] vibration that changes things in
[1:20:51] infantessimal but significant ways
[1:20:54] because it would have to. And that might
[1:20:57] even reconstitute in another frequency
[1:21:00] being that we might call rebirth.
[1:21:05] I am beginning to say boldly I think
[1:21:08] that the mind is infinite
[1:21:11] but fully and deeply respecting its
[1:21:14] complexity. The brain is not.
[1:21:17] Our treatments neuro feedback and DBR
[1:21:20] focus on the brain. These practices
[1:21:23] address regulation and the multiple
[1:21:25] shocks that disregulate and have given
[1:21:28] me a new and evolving mind.
[1:21:31] Psychotherapy gives me invaluable time
[1:21:34] and attention for the mind that is
[1:21:36] emerging.
[1:21:38] And now I think because the brain stem
[1:21:40] is quieting, my mind is learning for a
[1:21:44] few moments at a time to dissolve itself
[1:21:49] to dissolve itself into pure vibration.
[1:21:54] So I'm I just want to switch and read
[1:21:57] you this beautiful piece that was read
[1:21:59] to me at uh the on one of my retreats at
[1:22:02] the forest refuge. This is called the
[1:22:05] silent pulse. Uh it's a book by um
[1:22:08] George Leonard. The the subtitle is a
[1:22:12] search for the perfect rhythm that
[1:22:15] exists in each of us. And this is um I
[1:22:18] thought particularly useful because this
[1:22:20] is her his thoughts on these are his
[1:22:23] thoughts on um quantum physics.
[1:22:27] Okay.
[1:22:29] Almost done everyone. Okay. The electron
[1:22:32] scanning electron scanning microscope
[1:22:35] with the power to magnify several
[1:22:38] thousand times takes us down into a
[1:22:41] realm that has the look of the sea about
[1:22:43] it in the kingdom of the corp
[1:22:47] corpuscals.
[1:22:48] No, that's never mind. There is
[1:22:51] transfiguration and there is some
[1:22:53] sorrow. The endless round of birth and
[1:22:56] death.
[1:22:57] Every passing second some two and a half
[1:23:01] million red cells are born.
[1:23:04] Every second the same number die.
[1:23:08] The typical cell lives about 110 days
[1:23:12] then becomes tired and decrepit.
[1:23:16] There are no lingering deaths here. For
[1:23:19] when a cell loses its vital force, it
[1:23:23] somehow attracts the attention of the
[1:23:25] macrofase.
[1:23:28] As the magnification increases, the
[1:23:30] flesh does begin to dissolve.
[1:23:33] Muscle fiber now takes on a fully
[1:23:37] crystallin aspect. We can see that it is
[1:23:41] made of long spiral molecules in orderly
[1:23:45] array.
[1:23:47] And all of these molecules are swaying
[1:23:50] like wheat in the wind, connected with
[1:23:53] one another and held in place by
[1:23:55] invisible waves that pulse many trillion
[1:24:00] times a second.
[1:24:03] [Music]
[1:24:13] [Music]
[1:24:24] [Laughter]
[1:24:36] Heat. Heat.
[1:24:57] vibration, right?
[1:24:59] What are the molecules made of? As we
[1:25:03] move closer, we see a we see atoms, the
[1:25:06] tiny shadowy balls dancing around their
[1:25:09] fixed locations in the molecules,
[1:25:12] sometimes changing position with their
[1:25:14] partners in perfect rhythms.
[1:25:17] And now we focus on one of the atoms.
[1:25:20] Its interior is lightly veiled by a
[1:25:23] cloud of electrons. We come closer,
[1:25:27] increasing the magnification.
[1:25:29] The shell dissolves and we look on the
[1:25:33] inside to find nothing.
[1:25:37] Somewhere within that emptiness we know
[1:25:40] is a nucleus.
[1:25:42] We scan the space and there it is a tiny
[1:25:46] dot. At last we have discovered
[1:25:49] something hard and solid, a reference
[1:25:52] point.
[1:25:54] But no, as we move closer to the
[1:25:56] nucleus, it too begins to dissolve.
[1:26:01] It too is nothing more than an
[1:26:04] oscillating field, waves of rhythm.
[1:26:08] Inside the nucleus are other organized
[1:26:11] fields, protons, neutrons, even smaller
[1:26:16] particles. Each of these, upon our
[1:26:18] approach, also dissolve into pure
[1:26:22] rhythm.
[1:26:24] These days they the scientists
[1:26:28] he wrote this not me. These days they
[1:26:31] the scientists are looking for quirks
[1:26:34] strange subatomic entities having
[1:26:36] qualities which they describe with such
[1:26:38] words as upness, downness, charm,
[1:26:42] strangeness, truth, beauty, color, and
[1:26:46] flavor.
[1:26:47] But no matter if we could get close
[1:26:50] enough to these wondrous quarks, they
[1:26:53] too would melt away. They too would have
[1:26:57] to give up all pretense of solidity.
[1:27:00] Even their speed and relationship would
[1:27:03] be unclear,
[1:27:05] leaving them only relationship and
[1:27:08] pattern of vibration.
[1:27:10] Of what is the body made? It is made of
[1:27:14] emptiness and rhythm.
[1:27:17] Thank you.
[1:27:32] [Music]
[1:27:44] [Laughter]
[1:27:44] [Music]