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Inspiration

Brain and Body in TraumaHealing: A Neurophenomenological Approach

Thich Nhat Hanh
Thich Nhat Hanh
Apr 25, 2026
11 min read

TLDR: A panel of three leading neuroscientists—Ruth Lanius (trauma researcher), Frank Corrigan (brain stem specialist), and Sebern Fisher (neurofeedback pioneer)—address a critical problem in modern neuroscience: the dehumanization of medicine and mental health. They argue that the field has lost the first-person experience of suffering at the center of its work, and propose neurophenomenology—the integration of subjective experience with biological measurement—as the path forward. Through case studies of trauma survivors, they show why identical events can produce radically different brain and body responses, and why understanding both the biology and the lived reality is essential for healing.

Read · 9 sections

What does it mean to dehumanize neuroscience?

Ruth Lanius opens the panel by naming a problem she observes across neuroscience, medicine, and mental health: the field is becoming increasingly detached from the actual human suffering it aims to study. When people enter the mental health care system seeking help, they often report losing their dignity in the process. The very tools designed to understand and alleviate suffering—brain scans, diagnostic categories, pharmaceutical protocols—can paradoxically alienate patients from their own experience.

Lanius distinguishes between two dimensions of this dehumanization. First, research has become increasingly focused on biological mechanisms—brain networks, neurotransmitters, imaging patterns—while the first-person experience of suffering gets pushed to the margins or eliminated entirely. Second, clinical practice often treats the patient as a collection of symptoms to be managed rather than as a whole person whose dignity, autonomy, and subjective reality matter fundamentally.

The irony is that this detachment from human experience actually weakens the science. When researchers ignore what people report about their own suffering, they miss crucial information that would make their findings more accurate and more useful.

How does neurophenomenology bridge biology and experience?

The antidote Lanius proposes is neurophenomenology, a term coined by neuroscientist and contemplative researcher Francisco Varela. The concept is deceptively simple: you cannot understand biological mechanisms without simultaneously honoring the first-person experience of the person being studied.

In practice, this means that whenever neuroscience research measures something—brain activation, heart rate variability, inflammatory markers, neural oscillations—it must also carefully document and integrate the subjective report of the person. Not as an afterthought, but as an equal partner in understanding what is actually happening in that brain and body.

Lanius illustrates this principle through a striking case study from her early research, about 25 years ago. A couple was driving on a Canadian highway when they hit a thick wall of fog. What followed was a 400-car pileup. A van was pushed into their car. A teenager inside tried to escape and burned to death before the couple's eyes. The husband smashed through the windshield, pulled his wife out, and they both survived. One month later, Lanius assessed and brain-scanned both of them as they recalled the accident.

Both were suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. But their brain and body responses could not have been more different. When the husband recalled the accident, his heart rate spiked. He felt transported back to the scene. His brain showed a distinctive pattern: amygdala activation (the emotional learning center lighting up), visual cortex activation (consistent with flashbacks), and prefrontal cortex activity (suggesting he was mentally planning how to pull himself and his wife to safety—the action he had taken in real time).

His wife, sitting in the passenger seat during the same accident in the same car, had a completely opposite response. She froze, just as she had in the moment of the accident. She felt disconnected from her body, unable to move. Her heart rate did not increase. When Lanius scanned her brain, it appeared nearly blank—no amygdala spike, no flashback markers, no planning activity. She had disassociated, shutting down her active response systems entirely.

Without the first-person accounts—his sense of being back at the scene and planning escape; her sense of disconnection and immobility—these brain scans would have been nearly meaningless. If a researcher had simply averaged the two scans together, the result would have obscured the truth entirely. The neurophenomenological approach reveals that identical trauma can produce polar opposite neurobiological signatures depending on each person's unique nervous system, history, and moment-to-moment experience.

Why does the brain-body disconnect persist in modern medicine?

Lanius identifies a second major problem in contemporary neuroscience and psychiatry: the brain-body disconnect remains deeply embedded in how we think about healing. This is not merely a research problem; it reflects a broader cultural difficulty with embodiment.

The Western biomedical model has historically treated the brain as separate from the body—the seat of consciousness, reason, and "real" pathology, while the body is mere vehicle or peripheral concern. This split shows up in practice: diagnoses focus on mental symptoms or brain dysfunction; treatments often ignore or minimize what the person feels in their body; patients are encouraged to think their way out of problems rather than to sense their way back to wholeness.

But trauma, as the panel emphasizes, is not a disease of the brain alone. It is a dysregulation of the entire nervous system—brain, heart, gut, breath, musculature, all in communication. Healing requires accessing and reshaping that embodied, whole-system response, not just cognitive reprocessing.

What does qualitative data reveal that quantitative analysis alone cannot?

Lanius advocates for integrating qualitative and quantitative research methods, a theme that has been discussed earlier in the retreat. Modern neuroscience has developed extraordinarily sophisticated quantitative tools: statistical models that can measure brain networks, computational methods that extract patterns from thousands of data points, algorithms that identify neural signatures of disease.

But numbers alone miss something essential. The husband in the car accident case had measurable amygdala activation; the wife had measurable cortical shutdown. The numbers document these patterns. But only the qualitative report—"I felt like I was back there, planning how to escape"—and its counterpart—"I was frozen, disconnected from my body"—reveals what those numbers actually mean in the life of the person experiencing them.

Lanius argues that the strongest science holds both: quantitative rigor in measuring biological markers, and qualitative depth in understanding the first-person experience. The two inform each other. The patient's report guides which biological systems the researcher should examine. The biological findings help explain why the patient's subjective experience takes the form it does. Together, they produce understanding that neither could achieve alone.

How do subcortical loops keep people trapped in trauma?

Moving into the neurobiology of how trauma persists, the panel emphasizes that traumatized nervous systems often become stuck in loops at the subcortical level—the older, more primitive regions of the brain that handle threat detection, alarm response, and survival reflexes. When a person is caught in these loops, the higher brain regions (prefrontal cortex, sites of reasoning and deliberation) have a difficult time gaining influence.

This is crucial for understanding why talk therapy alone, or willpower alone, often fails to resolve trauma. A person can intellectually understand that the threat has passed, can reason their way through the logic of safety, but if their amygdala and brainstem are still locked in a survival pattern, the body and emotion will not follow the mind's conclusions. The trauma is not being held in the thinking brain; it is being held in the reactive, protective layers beneath.

Healing, therefore, requires methods that can reach down into those subcortical systems and help them learn something new—that the world is now safe, that the person's resources have changed, that a different response is possible. This is where practices like neurofeedback (Sebern Fisher's expertise) and somatic approaches come in. They work directly with the nervous system's own capacity to reorganize itself, rather than trying to override it with reason.

What role does the brainstem play in trauma response?

Frank Corrigan, the psychiatrist specializing in brainstem function, brings attention to the lowest and most primitive regions of the brain—the brainstem and midbrain—which handle fundamental survival functions: breathing, heart rate, threat detection, orienting to danger, the freeze-fight-flight response.

In acute trauma, the brainstem is often the first region to engage. It detects threat faster than conscious awareness can, triggering physiological changes—pupils dilate, muscles tense, heart rate climbs, breathing becomes shallow and rapid. In non-traumatized people, once the threat has passed, the brainstem recalibrates: breathing slows, heart rate normalizes, muscles relax. The system returns to baseline.

But in people with unresolved trauma, the brainstem gets stuck in a partial activation state. It continues to perceive threat even in safe situations. It fires off alarm signals repeatedly, keeping the nervous system exhausted and vigilant. This is why trauma survivors often feel perpetually unsafe, why their hearts race at unexpected noises, why their bodies brace for danger even in comfortable circumstances. The brainstem has learned a lesson that is now obsolete, and it has not yet learned to unlearn it.

Understanding the brainstem's role is important because it clarifies why trauma is not a simple matter of "getting over it" psychologically. The brainstem does not respond to insight or intention. It responds to experiences that update its threat assessment—that show it, through direct nervous system experience, that safety is now present and sustained.

How does neuroplasticity enable healing?

A crucial insight from modern neuroscience, emphasized throughout the panel, is that the brain does not stop changing after childhood or in adulthood. This is neuroplasticity—the brain's capacity to reorganize its connections and functions in response to experience, learning, and practice.

For trauma survivors, neuroplasticity is not merely optimistic psychology; it is literal neurobiology. The neural networks that encode the trauma—the patterns of brainstem activation, the sensory flashback circuits, the threat-detection hypervigilance—can actually change. They can be quieted, rewired, or overwritten with new learning.

This change does not happen through will or insight alone. It happens through repeated, grounded experience that contradicts the trauma lesson. When a person practices feeling safe in their body, practices moving without triggering an alarm response, practices having their nervous system soothed by connection with another person or through contemplative practice, the brain learns. New neural pathways strengthen. Old pathways quiet down. The physical structure of the brain itself shifts.

Sebern Fisher's work with neurofeedback is one method for facilitating this learning. By giving the brain real-time information about its own activity—allowing a person to see a visual display that responds to their own brainwave patterns—the brain can learn to self-regulate, to access states of calm and presence that were previously unavailable. With repeated practice, the brain rewires itself to make those states more accessible, more stable, more the new baseline.

What is the role of contemplative practice in healing trauma?

Though primarily framed as a neuroscience panel, the discussion is held within Plum Village, a Zen Buddhist community founded by Thich Nhat Hanh. This context is not incidental. The panel repeatedly points to the importance of practices—mindfulness, sitting meditation, breathing awareness—as methods that directly engage the nervous system and help it learn new patterns.

When a person sits in meditation and simply notices their breath, they are giving their nervous system a very specific message: it is safe to be still, safe to be present, safe to notice what is happening without needing to fight or flee. They are also exercising their capacity to stay present with difficulty without being overwhelmed by it. Over time, this trains the nervous system to access states of calm, presence, and resilience that become more available in daily life.

This is not merely psychological comfort. It is nervous system training. The contemplative practices offered in a retreat setting, combined with the holding presence of a community, create an environment where the nervous system can gradually learn that safety is possible, that being human and embodied and feeling is not dangerous, that there is an alternative to the patterns of hypervigilance or shutdown that trauma has installed.

Where to go from here

The panel's message is a call to rehumanize neuroscience and medicine by restoring the first-person experience of suffering to the center of research and care. This does not mean abandoning brain imaging or neurobiology. Rather, it means always asking: what is this person experiencing? How does that match with or illuminate what we are measuring? What does the lived reality teach us about the mechanism?

For those working in mental health or neuroscience, this suggests a shift: toward neurophenomenological approaches that honor both the objective and subjective, both the scan and the story, both the data and the dignity of the person. For those in recovery from trauma, it suggests that healing is possible not because you need to think yourself better, but because your nervous system has the capacity to learn something new—through practice, through connection, through patient, repeated experience in safety. For all of us living in an embodied world, it invites a reconnection with the wisdom of the body, the intelligence of the nervous system, and the power of showing up with awareness to what we are actually feeling, moment by moment.

Transcript

[0:02] Dear beloved community,

[0:04] I'm very honored to have the chance to

[0:08] sit on this panel with um these three

[0:11] wonderful scientists, researchers,

[0:14] and I'm just going to take a moment to

[0:16] to introduce the three of them to you

[0:20] um

[0:21] before we uh we hear their

[0:23] presentations. And then we'll also have

[0:25] some time at the end for some

[0:27] interaction. We hope they may ask each

[0:29] other some questions and then maybe also

[0:31] have some time for questions from the

[0:33] audience.

[0:35] So um on your left uh we have Dr. Ruth

[0:41] Lannias

[0:43] uh who's uh

[0:46] one of the leading researchers in the

[0:48] neuroscience of trauma and dissociation

[0:52] and she's at the University of Western

[0:53] Ontario in Canada which um she wanted to

[0:56] remind us is not the 51st state of the

[0:58] US

[1:01] and um yeah Ruth is a a wonderful

[1:04] scientist practitioner um human being

[1:10] and Um we've had uh the honor of having

[1:14] her here in Plumage before for a

[1:16] previous neuroscience retreat and then

[1:18] again for an online science retreat and

[1:20] and um and I've even had the chance to

[1:24] to co-e with her a little bit online. Um

[1:29] so we've been getting to know each other

[1:31] for for quite some time already and um

[1:34] yeah it's going to be wonderful to hear

[1:35] from her this afternoon. Uh the

[1:38] wonderful thing about this panel is that

[1:40] Ruth and Frank and Surn all work

[1:42] together and so this is a very deeply

[1:45] interconnected panel and um their talks

[1:49] will flow on from each other as well I

[1:52] think in a in a very beautiful way. So

[1:54] in the middle we have Dr. Frank Coran

[1:58] uh who's a psychiatrist and one of the

[2:00] leading experts on the brain stem uh and

[2:05] particularly the how the brain stem

[2:07] affects the manifestations of trauma and

[2:11] maybe and and

[2:13] insights from the brain stem as to how

[2:16] we might go about alleviating the

[2:18] suffering of trauma.

[2:20] And um

[2:23] and then to my right we have SARN Dr.

[2:26] Siban Fischer

[2:28] uh who's a pioneer of neuro feedback in

[2:31] the treatment of developmental trauma

[2:33] particularly and all kinds of trauma.

[2:36] She's also a secret poet. You can ask

[2:39] her about that later.

[2:42] This is all an in joke.

[2:46] And uh and Sbran is actually having her

[2:49] 35th anniversary of being in Plum

[2:52] Village. So she's all of our ancestors

[2:56] and uh she actually helped to build the

[2:58] turtle lodge which is in the forest over

[3:01] there. And she came to a retreat here

[3:03] when they were with Thai when there were

[3:06] probably retreats were like 20 people.

[3:08] No, it was 100.

[3:09] Oh, it was still 100 people. Okay. But

[3:11] yeah, so she's uh she's uh been here

[3:15] many many times since and is a member of

[3:17] the order of interbeing as well.

[3:20] So without further ado, like to hand the

[3:23] mic to to Ruth.

[3:27] Thank you.

[3:32] It's a real privilege.

[3:34] It's a real privilege.

[3:42] How's this? Perfect. It's a real

[3:45] privilege to be in this wonderful

[3:48] community and welcome to all.

[3:52] I want to talk a little bit about

[3:53] something that I think has been very

[3:55] difficult for my colleagues and me and

[3:58] that's really observing the

[4:00] dehumanization

[4:02] of neuroscience,

[4:04] medicine and mental health.

[4:07] And what do I mean by that? So I'm a

[4:10] psychiatrist and a researcher and our

[4:14] group is very passionate about studying

[4:17] the brain underpinnings of

[4:19] post-traumatic stress and other trauma

[4:21] related difficulties.

[4:24] And I think what we're observing is that

[4:28] what we're missing more and more out of

[4:31] the research is the actual firsterson

[4:34] experience of suffering.

[4:37] which is really why we do this research.

[4:41] And also when we talk, you know, to our

[4:44] patients who've been in the mental

[4:46] health care system,

[4:49] you know, we hear about this

[4:50] desperation,

[4:52] a not being able to receive help, but

[4:56] often when they get into the mental

[4:58] health care system, they feel like

[5:01] they've lost their dignity.

[5:05] And so

[5:07] as we start today, I just want to have

[5:09] some thoughts about how we can humanize

[5:14] neuroscience,

[5:16] medicine, and mental health or begin to

[5:20] think about humanizing it again.

[5:24] And I think one way out of this

[5:27] dehumanization

[5:29] is something that's called neuro

[5:31] phenomenology.

[5:34] And this term was first coined by

[5:36] Francesca Varela. And I hear his wife is

[5:40] actually at the retreat.

[5:44] And I think what Francesca Varela

[5:47] taught us is that we can't understand

[5:52] the biological mechanisms without the

[5:56] firsterson experience of suffering.

[6:01] So throughout neuroscience research,

[6:04] especially when we study different

[6:06] emotional difficulties, we always have

[6:09] to keep track of the first person

[6:11] experience as well as what biological

[6:15] mechanisms we're studying. That may be

[6:19] brain imaging, that may be heart rate

[6:21] variability, that may be different

[6:24] inflammatory markers. So to always pair

[6:28] the two.

[6:30] And of course I think this makes a lot

[6:32] of sense. But uh this I really

[6:36] experienced 25 years ago when I first

[6:38] started doing this research when I saw a

[6:42] couple that was involved in a car

[6:43] accident. And this couple reacted

[6:47] completely different to the same

[6:48] accident. They were in the same car,

[6:51] same accident. And yet when they had the

[6:56] accident, their reactions were

[6:57] completely different. And that really

[7:00] taught me to go to Franchesca's Varila's

[7:03] work and combine the subjective

[7:05] experience with the biology that we were

[7:08] measuring. So I just want to quickly

[7:10] give you that case example to really

[7:13] illustrate the importance of that. So

[7:15] this couple was driving on a highway in

[7:17] Canada. They hit a thick wall of fog,

[7:20] slammed on the brakes. It became a

[7:22] several hundred car pileup within

[7:25] seconds and a van was pushed into their

[7:28] car. A teenager tried to escape the car

[7:32] and the couple witnessed the teenager

[7:34] burn to death. The husband then smashed

[7:38] in the windshield, pulled his wife out,

[7:40] and they were both saved.

[7:43] And then a month later, I had the

[7:46] opportunity to get to know them both,

[7:48] assess them, and scan their brain while

[7:51] they were recalling this car accident.

[7:55] And they both, you know, were suffering

[7:56] from post-traumatic stress disorder. But

[7:59] when the husband recalled his accident,

[8:01] you know, was he was hyperaroused, his

[8:03] heart rate increased, and he felt like

[8:05] he was back at the scene of the trauma

[8:07] and he was planning how to pull himself

[8:10] and his wife out of the car.

[8:14] And his brain looked like this.

[8:17] So you see amygdala activation, that's

[8:20] part of the emotional learning brain.

[8:22] You see visual cortex activation which

[8:24] likely reflected that he was having

[8:26] flashbacks and some preffrontal cortex

[8:29] activity which likely reflected him

[8:32] planning how to get himself and his wife

[8:34] out of the car.

[8:36] Now his wife who was in the passenger

[8:39] seat same accident same car had a

[8:42] completely different response. She

[8:44] reacted like she did at the time of the

[8:47] car accident. She froze. She was in

[8:50] shock. She felt disconnected from her

[8:53] body. She was unable to move. And she

[8:56] said if it hadn't been for her husband,

[8:58] she wouldn't have been able to get out

[8:59] of the car.

[9:01] There was no increase in heart rate.

[9:06] And her brain looked like this. It was

[9:09] blank.

[9:11] And so this taught me immediately, whoa.

[9:15] Right? People can have very different

[9:17] responses to trauma.

[9:20] And without really capturing the

[9:22] firsterson experience in combination

[9:25] with the brain imaging, these results

[9:28] wouldn't have made very little sense.

[9:31] And so what does that teach us?

[9:33] combining first person experience with

[9:36] the neurobiology or whatever biological

[9:39] marker

[9:41] I think it doesn't only bring in the

[9:44] suffering of an individual but it makes

[9:48] our ability to understand brain mind and

[9:52] body

[9:53] much stronger right because if we

[9:56] average these two scans it wouldn't make

[9:58] any sense and I think it also points to

[10:02] the importance of really looking at both

[10:04] qualitative and quantitative data and I

[10:08] think this has been discussed earlier in

[10:09] the retreat right so we have very

[10:11] sophisticated analyses that can actually

[10:14] quantify the qualitative experience the

[10:18] first person experience in addition to

[10:21] looking at the numbers and the brain

[10:23] networks and then really bringing the

[10:25] two together

[10:28] what are some additional problems that I

[10:31] think are struggling in neuroscience and

[10:34] medicine and mental health.

[10:37] And that is that I think the brain body

[10:40] disconnect is still alive and well,

[10:44] right? And when we think about our

[10:46] society as a whole, embodiment

[10:50] is something that we have a lot of

[10:51] difficulties with. And of course, this

[10:53] is something we try to capture here in

[10:56] these retreats.

[10:58] But what can help us to overcome this

[11:01] brain body disconnect?

[11:04] Where do we need to look? What do we

[11:07] need to think about in neuroscience and

[11:09] medicine?

[11:11] What is one thing that we're missing?

[11:16] And I think one thing we're missing is

[11:19] what some brain researchers in a recent

[11:22] uh neuroscience review have called the

[11:25] fruit below the rind. And what they're

[11:28] referring to is the brain stem and

[11:32] cerebellum,

[11:33] the deepest part of the brain. Some of

[11:35] us will call it the survival brain that

[11:38] has profound influences on all other

[11:41] levels of the brain, but also on the

[11:43] body. And it's an area of the brain that

[11:47] we have largely ignored. A because it's

[11:51] so difficult to study with imaging and

[11:54] it's becoming easier, but it's been very

[11:56] difficult. But also, I think because

[11:58] we're human and we're so impressed with

[12:01] ourselves and our cortex and so I think

[12:04] we've often thought, oh, this primitive

[12:06] low thing, you know, we don't have to

[12:08] worry about that. We'll stick, you know,

[12:11] with the human part of the brain.

[12:15] And I think what's so critical about

[12:18] this lowest part of the brain, the brain

[12:20] stem and the midbrain, that it's really

[12:22] the intersection between the brain and

[12:24] body. And I think this can really help

[12:27] us to reunite brain, mind and body.

[12:32] And in a recent review in nature

[12:34] neuroscience, they've also reminded us

[12:37] that, you know, this has been left out

[12:40] of our understanding of cognitive

[12:43] neuroscience and that really there's an

[12:45] urgent need to bring the whole brain and

[12:48] the body into the study of cognitive

[12:50] neuroscience.

[12:52] But we are uh really dedicating this

[12:55] afternoon to psychological trauma,

[12:57] right? Which is really somebody being

[13:00] under imminent threat all the time. And

[13:05] so here I think the brain stem and

[13:07] midbrain becomes even more important

[13:10] because as we know from research now is

[13:14] that as threat approaches us and when

[13:17] threat is imminent which is always the

[13:20] case in the aftermath of trauma we see a

[13:23] shift in what happens in the brain. And

[13:27] so as threat becomes more imminent, it

[13:30] appears that the midbrain, specifically

[13:32] the perryodactyl gray, takes the

[13:35] driver's seat and the cortex, the more

[13:38] human part of the brain, takes the back

[13:41] seat. Now why is that?

[13:44] Our cortex is much slower and usually

[13:47] takes about a 100 milliseconds to

[13:49] process information. Whereas our brain

[13:52] stem can react within 16 milliseconds.

[13:58] And so when it's about survival, we have

[14:00] to react very quickly in order to

[14:03] increase our chance of survival. And

[14:05] often, you know, relying on the cortex

[14:08] is not quick enough.

[14:10] And so I love this research by Mobs who

[14:13] has stated that imminent danger results

[14:16] in fast likely hardwired defensive

[14:19] reactions mediated by the midbrain. And

[14:23] this is really about the brain adapting

[14:26] to inescapable threat and reacting very

[14:30] quickly to help us stay alive. So it's

[14:32] reacting without thinking.

[14:37] So now let's turn our attention to how

[14:41] we perceive threat versus safety. And of

[14:44] course threat is at the core of trauma.

[14:49] And so when we think about how we

[14:51] experience threat or safety, it's really

[14:53] experienced through our senses, right?

[14:56] Senses that come in from the body and

[14:59] senses that come in through the

[15:01] environment.

[15:04] and just some gross basic anatomy. Of

[15:07] course, the senses, the different

[15:09] sensory pathways from the body that

[15:11] really inform us about what's going on

[15:13] in the body, they enter at the level of

[15:16] the brain stem.

[15:18] And most external sensations except for

[15:21] smell again enter at the level of the

[15:24] midbrain, the superior caliculus.

[15:28] They first enter the brain. And so this

[15:31] is where the brain takes in sensations.

[15:35] And so this is also the first line of

[15:38] response. The brain stem has to make

[15:41] sense of these sensations at a brain

[15:43] stem level, at a preconscious level, and

[15:46] determine whether these sensations are

[15:49] safe or unsafe.

[15:53] And so what we're learning now if at the

[15:56] level of the brain stem these sensations

[15:58] are determined to be unsafe,

[16:01] we stay at lower levels of the brain in

[16:05] these subcortical loops. We react

[16:07] without thinking because that's quick

[16:11] and that increases our chance of

[16:13] survival.

[16:15] Whereas if those sensations are deemed

[16:18] as safe, they then flow to the level of

[16:23] the cortex where they can profoundly

[16:26] affect all human functions including

[16:29] embodiment, agency,

[16:32] connection,

[16:34] having a sense of the present, thinking

[16:37] and planning, emotion regulation, as

[16:40] well as curiosity.

[16:43] But when threat is always imminent, as

[16:45] it is in the aftermath of trauma, we

[16:47] stay at these lower subcortical loops

[16:50] that are quick that help us to react

[16:53] without thinking in order to increase

[16:56] our survival.

[16:58] And so I think we can really see trauma

[17:01] as an insult to the senses. Right?

[17:04] Again, we take in trauma through the

[17:07] senses

[17:10] and then these sensations at the level

[17:13] of the brain stem couple with arousal

[17:16] and raw emotion. And Frank will talk

[17:20] about this in much more detail.

[17:23] And so the survival brain, the brain

[17:25] stem and midbrain is where these

[17:27] sensations, arousal and raw emotion meet

[17:31] preconciously

[17:32] and can start to deeply affect us

[17:35] without really knowing what is affecting

[17:38] us. And often this is trauma we

[17:40] experience preverbally,

[17:43] right? We're haunted by experiences,

[17:47] bodily experiences

[17:49] that we have no meaning for. And I think

[17:52] one explanation likely is that we're

[17:55] caught in these lower subcortical loops

[17:58] that don't fully connect or optimally

[18:01] connect to the cortex that allows us to

[18:03] make sense and make meaning.

[18:07] And so I want to take it a step further

[18:09] and we've heard a lot in this retreat as

[18:12] the brain the brain as a predictive

[18:15] organ. Right? So we want to use these

[18:19] incoming sensations

[18:21] that's what the brain needs in order to

[18:24] predict and update what's going to

[18:27] happen. Right? And in a normal

[18:30] functioning brain, you know, if I leave

[18:32] the meditation hall today and I trip,

[18:38] the next few times I'm leaving the

[18:40] meditation hall, my brain, my cortex is

[18:42] going to update,

[18:44] right? The sensory information of danger

[18:47] and I'm going to be much more cautious,

[18:50] you know, the next few times I leave the

[18:52] meditation hall. But after three or four

[18:55] times when things have gone well, you

[18:57] know, I skip out of the meditation hall

[19:00] and my brain updates again that okay,

[19:04] you're safe again.

[19:06] But this is not how trauma works, right?

[19:09] I think in trauma, what we see is that

[19:12] the brain has a real difficult time

[19:14] updating, right? It can't update when we

[19:18] get safe information about the present.

[19:21] it has real difficulty updating and

[19:24] helping us know, okay, things are safe

[19:26] now. It's 2025.

[19:29] You're no longer being hurt.

[19:32] And so I want to share a recent study uh

[19:34] from our group uh that's going to be

[19:36] published in nature mental health that I

[19:39] think really outlines that inability of

[19:42] the brain to predict and the cerebellum

[19:46] which is tightly connected to the

[19:49] midbrain and receives a lot of that

[19:51] sensory input seems to be a hub that

[19:55] really uh prevents this updating and

[19:59] this predictive function of the brain.

[20:00] bra in post-traumatic stress disorder.

[20:04] So, I just want you to take a look at

[20:07] this image

[20:09] and uh this is the brain uh functioning

[20:15] during recall of traumatic memory. So,

[20:17] we're pushing the brain, we're stressing

[20:19] the brain

[20:21] and uh I just want you to focus on that

[20:24] blue line. So blue means there is a lack

[20:29] of connectivity compared to

[20:31] non-traumatized

[20:32] healthy individuals.

[20:35] And where we're seeing this blue line

[20:37] emerge from is predominantly from the

[20:39] cerebellum.

[20:41] So it doesn't get information to the

[20:44] higher levels of the brain including the

[20:46] cortex and the phalamus.

[20:49] So the brain is not synchronized. And

[20:52] because the cerebellum is so important

[20:54] in this prediction and helping get

[20:58] sensory information to the cortex where

[21:00] the cortex can update, I think this is a

[21:04] huge problem in PTSD that leaves people,

[21:08] you know, in these lower subcortical

[21:10] loops.

[21:12] What's happening at the same time is

[21:14] that we're also getting this

[21:17] hyperconivity. So too much connectivity

[21:21] in the cortex

[21:23] but these two systems are functioning

[21:25] independently

[21:28] and so we lose this capacity to update

[21:33] now of course this is something we want

[21:35] to bring back in treatment right and so

[21:39] we're extremely grateful to Frank Coran

[21:42] who's developed deep brain reorienting

[21:45] which is a treatment I've been treating

[21:46] traumatized individuals for 25 years.

[21:50] That's really humbled me. And we have

[21:54] interim results from our deep brain

[21:57] reorienting study.

[22:00] And I'm just going to move over here.

[22:04] And I think there's a lot of hope here.

[22:07] And what you're seeing is the blue band,

[22:10] which is lack of connectivity.

[22:15] Now, when we're looking at individuals

[22:17] who have post-traumatic stress,

[22:20] when we compare them before and after

[22:24] treatment, during recall of traumatic

[22:27] memories,

[22:28] that connectivity comes back online.

[22:31] It's now red.

[22:34] And what that could really mean is that

[22:37] we're restoring the capacity of the

[22:40] brain to predict and to update to the

[22:43] present to safety.

[22:46] And what we're seeing qualitatively in

[22:48] our subjects who are really individuals

[22:51] who've been suffering for years and

[22:53] years is that often it's the first time

[22:58] they're able to reinhabit their body.

[23:01] And it's been really touching to observe

[23:03] that and we're hoping to really combine

[23:07] these qualitative data with our

[23:09] neuroiming data. But I think this

[23:12] provides incredible hope that we're

[23:14] starting to be able to reconnect the

[23:17] brain. I think to restore this

[23:19] predictive capacity and allow the brain

[23:22] to update the information to the

[23:25] present.

[23:28] So what are the implications for

[23:30] therapy? Right? We've been talking about

[23:32] the importance of the brain stem. That's

[23:35] where raw

[23:37] emotion, arousal, and these sensations,

[23:40] how we take in the world, meet.

[23:44] And a lot of our treatments really

[23:46] intervene at a cognitive level, right?

[23:48] So, we're working with thoughts.

[23:51] And often our patients come in and they

[23:54] tell us, "I know it was not my fault."

[23:58] Right? So, we've worked with the

[23:59] thoughts, but they say, "But I can't

[24:02] stop feeling it. It keeps tearing me up

[24:05] inside."

[24:07] And we would hypothesize that this

[24:09] presentation is exactly where the brain

[24:13] stem is still very much affected. And we

[24:16] haven't gotten to the foundation of the

[24:18] trauma response, which we would

[24:20] hypothesize is deep within the brain

[24:23] stem and midbrain.

[24:26] And this takes us into the next two

[24:29] parts of this talk which are really

[24:31] about targeting directly deep brain

[24:34] circuits and a number of body oriented

[24:37] treatments can do this. Neuro feedback

[24:40] we've shown can get at this deep brain

[24:43] level and of course Seaburn has devoted

[24:46] her career to neuro feedback and how

[24:48] that can help shift you know the some of

[24:51] the major brain networks

[24:54] and now we have Frank's deep brain

[24:56] reorienting which is a psychotherapy

[24:58] he'll explain in detail that targets

[25:01] directly these deep brain circuits

[25:05] and so by targeting these deep brain

[25:08] circuits We're really intervening in a

[25:11] bottomup way, right? We're going to the

[25:14] root of the problem. And by really

[25:18] targeting the root at this deep level of

[25:21] the brain, the brain can reorganize from

[25:24] bottom up and again then up down and it

[25:29] can also have a profound effect on the

[25:30] body.

[25:32] But I think a lot of us are still

[25:34] confused about, you know, what bottomup

[25:37] treatment really is. And I I think Frank

[25:40] has really beautifully uh described

[25:43] that. So I'm just going to go through

[25:46] some thoughts about what bottomup

[25:48] treatment really is and then over to

[25:50] Frank.

[25:54] The more we try to do bottom-up therapy,

[25:58] the more we risk disrupting its natural

[26:01] unfolding.

[26:04] What is called for is not technique but

[26:07] attunement.

[26:09] A kind of felt listening that lets

[26:12] something emerge in its own time,

[26:16] on its own terms

[26:18] before interpretation,

[26:21] before knowing.

[26:26] And with that in mind, we're going to go

[26:29] deep into the brain at a preconscious

[26:31] level before interpretation, before

[26:34] knowing.

[26:41] Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you so much,

[26:44] Ruth. This is very uh it feels very

[26:47] hopeful.

[26:48] Feels like there's something new in the

[26:51] world of uh yeah, how to address these

[26:55] deeply stuck patterns of of of traumatic

[26:59] remembering or yeah, traumatic stress.

[27:02] So, let us enjoy the sound of the bell.

[27:05] We can also be

[27:07] uh feeling our bodies, feeling our

[27:10] nervous systems,

[27:12] letting everything we've heard settle.

[27:19] [Music]

[27:29] [Music]

[27:29] [Laughter]

[28:17] [Music]

[28:26] I'll just check the sound first of all.

[28:29] Is that am I audible at the back?

[28:33] I hope understandable too even with my

[28:36] pronounced accent. But uh

[28:40] um so it's just first of all like to say

[28:45] that it is a great honor to be here,

[28:48] great privilege to be here. So I'm very

[28:50] grateful for the the invitation to be

[28:54] here to present today even in this heat.

[29:06] So I'm a gen I I'm a general

[29:09] psychiatrist and for many years worked

[29:12] in a a a national health service in

[29:15] Scotland and over many years was

[29:20] preoccupied with the question of why

[29:23] early life adversity would lead to an

[29:27] increase in suicidality.

[29:30] And many people did not complete the

[29:33] suicide but lived with a constant

[29:38] desire to be dead or an impulse to be

[29:41] dead. And it it always seemed to me that

[29:45] the most severe suicidality

[29:48] was associated with the most severe

[29:52] abuse or neglect in early life.

[29:57] So my approach I trained in many

[29:59] different um trauma therapy models

[30:03] trying to understand Yeah.

[30:08] All right.

[30:09] Okay. Good.

[30:11] Okay. Yeah. How is that now? Yeah. Good.

[30:15] Thank you. That's a little easier to

[30:19] Yeah. Good. Um so yeah, so I was curious

[30:24] about this link between early life

[30:28] adversity and later suicidality

[30:31] and the the research literature did not

[30:34] really give ideas on the associations.

[30:41] So my way of approaching it with all the

[30:44] different trauma therapy modalities was

[30:47] trying to understand

[30:50] everything that came from the patients

[30:53] that I was treating in terms of brain

[30:56] functioning

[30:58] and brain dysfunctioning.

[31:01] So it meant that

[31:04] I didn't have scanners um to be able to

[31:08] check out the the theories as I do now

[31:13] thanks to Ruth and her team. um but

[31:17] could get a sense of whether theories

[31:20] and hypotheses were valid or not from a

[31:25] clinical perspective

[31:27] and many of them I had to discard as

[31:30] rubbish. So but just kept working trying

[31:34] to understand the link between the early

[31:38] trauma and the later life distress

[31:42] especially when it involved an increase

[31:44] in suicidality.

[31:51] So the end result after

[31:54] working with many different modalities

[31:56] was developing deep brain reorienting

[32:00] and this um this met some criteria that

[32:06] I had for an effective treatment because

[32:11] it could be used in the most severely

[32:14] distressed patients. Other modalities

[32:18] were often effective but didn't work in

[32:22] the most severely distressed or couldn't

[32:25] be used without an extensive period of

[32:28] stabilization.

[32:30] So this formed a way to work with even

[32:35] the most um severely distressed.

[32:39] And if there's a way of working with the

[32:42] trauma history, then there's hope for

[32:45] the future. Even a minimal change can

[32:49] imply the possibility of further change

[32:53] and therefore the possibility of healing

[32:56] over time. So it may take years, but at

[33:00] least there's a way of moving forward

[33:03] session by session to to get to to the

[33:08] healing of the the deepest wounding that

[33:12] had occurred in very early life.

[33:23] The first draft of slides for today was

[33:27] rejected by Seburn who said it was far

[33:31] too clinical. And so I hope that this

[33:34] draft is is more suited to this audience

[33:39] because the focus is on suffering,

[33:43] the reasons for suffering and the

[33:46] pathway to healing from suffering.

[33:49] And in brain stem terms, we're looking

[33:53] at what activates, what intensifies

[33:57] experiences,

[33:59] what makes traumatic experiences

[34:02] traumatic.

[34:04] And I think that what we are finding is

[34:09] that the brain stem arousal,

[34:12] the shock, the horror

[34:15] intensifies

[34:17] the emotional response and also can

[34:20] intensify the memories so that people

[34:24] remember in flashbacks the horrors that

[34:28] have occurred to them.

[34:30] And now I think that those flashbacks

[34:33] are there because at the inception of

[34:36] the memory there was a high level of

[34:39] shock and this level of shock was in the

[34:43] brain stem. And if we're going to clear

[34:46] the clinical syndrome, we need to get

[34:49] back to the shock right at the beginning

[34:53] of the traumatic experience.

[34:59] And often that's out of awareness,

[35:03] especially if it's from very early life,

[35:06] if it's from early neglect,

[35:09] abandonment and infancy,

[35:12] um traumas in the early neonatal period.

[35:17] We've got no episodic memory of these

[35:19] things and early attachment wounding.

[35:24] We're going in through present day

[35:26] activating stimuli to find ways to get

[35:30] into what's been stored in the brain

[35:33] stem that's causing continuing pain and

[35:38] distress.

[35:47] And I I've always um been impressed by

[35:53] the healing capacity of humans. And I

[35:59] think it's important in doing trauma

[36:02] therapy that we do not think of the

[36:05] trauma therapist doing something to the

[36:09] client that gets the client better

[36:12] because we're trying to liberate a

[36:15] healing process that's intrinsic to the

[36:19] human condition but has got blocked in

[36:22] some way.

[36:24] And to help to

[36:27] be in that healing process, it's

[36:30] important for the therapist

[36:33] to be present, to be here now when with

[36:38] the patient, to be attentive at the deep

[36:43] emotional level rather than working at

[36:48] the upper level, at the cognitive

[36:51] meaning making level. So, we're doing

[36:54] our best to get into this uh deep brain

[36:58] for the reorienting there.

[37:06] One of the beneficial things that's come

[37:09] from the development of DBR is the idea

[37:14] of locating the self.

[37:18] And this idea came mainly from a book by

[37:21] Greg Fionne who described brain systems

[37:25] for

[37:27] us knowing where we are in this moment

[37:31] and brain systems for what we are

[37:34] encountering. And of course the brain

[37:37] systems for where and what readily come

[37:40] together. But trauma memories are about

[37:44] what has happened. So we look to find a

[37:49] way to separate out the sense of wheness

[37:53] and nowness from what has happened. And

[37:58] that's given us this idea of locating

[38:01] the where self as a way of of being here

[38:06] now without intrusion of um

[38:12] thoughts and images and memories and so

[38:15] on.

[38:20] And for for self location we use we do

[38:27] not mention relaxation we do not mention

[38:30] calmness we don't use breathing we're

[38:34] focused purely on here now

[38:38] the sense of gravity holding you in your

[38:41] chair just notice what it's like that

[38:44] you don't float off to the ceiling.

[38:48] You can sense the direction of gravity,

[38:51] the up and down line.

[38:54] Everyone, I think, unless they're in

[38:56] orbit around the earth, is going to have

[39:00] that capacity for the sensing into the

[39:04] direction of gravity. And we can use

[39:06] that for the sense of being here. Now we

[39:12] can also use the axes of orienting of

[39:14] the body. The head totail axis of the

[39:18] spine, the side to side, the upper and

[39:21] lower, the front to back. But the the

[39:25] key thing is to find ways that suit the

[39:30] individual of getting into this sense of

[39:33] the body, how it's present, how it's

[39:37] balanced, how it's positioned.

[39:40] in this moment now

[39:47] and in DBR once we have the orienting

[39:51] tension then we're looking for sorry

[39:55] once we have the W self then we're

[39:58] looking for the orienting tension this

[40:01] is something that comes in to the

[40:03] forehead the muscles around the eyes or

[40:06] the muscles at the base of the skull

[40:10] momentarily before any traumatic

[40:14] response.

[40:15] And I think it works well as a as an

[40:18] anchor for processing

[40:20] because it's there in the forehead

[40:24] around the eyes or the base of the skull

[40:26] before any trauma response.

[40:31] And the next response is the shock that

[40:34] I'll expand on. and then the affect the

[40:38] the basic emotional response.

[40:43] So this is our key sequence the

[40:46] separating out of the shock

[40:50] after the activating stimulus and after

[40:52] we obtain the orienting tension from the

[40:56] affect that follows.

[41:02] when I was trying to find um papers of

[41:07] relevance to

[41:09] mindfulness practitioners, I happened

[41:12] across this paper which is really

[41:14] useful. So I'm I'm glad that I was

[41:17] stimulated to search for it because this

[41:21] paper brings together details of the the

[41:25] speed of the response.

[41:29] You can see that in the first 20

[41:32] milliseconds after a stimulus we can

[41:35] have a response from the superior

[41:38] caliculus

[41:40] that gives us our orienting tension.

[41:43] Then we get the activation of the locus

[41:46] ceruius which gives us our shock and

[41:50] then the cortex comes online at some

[41:53] point for conscious awareness but also

[41:56] the periqueductal gray for the basic

[42:00] emotional response.

[42:08] So just to show where we are in brain

[42:11] stem terms,

[42:18] you can see the three areas of the brain

[42:21] stem, the midbrain, the pawns and then

[42:25] the the medelo blangata. And right at

[42:29] the top of the midbrain is the area of

[42:31] the superior caliculus. This is from

[42:35] where we orient to stimuli such as

[42:40] sounds or um visual stimuli.

[42:45] This is from where we get the orienting

[42:47] tension before any trauma response.

[42:57] And you can see that the the layers of

[42:59] the caliculi that take in the

[43:02] information about the stimuli are

[43:05] adjacent to the columns of the

[43:07] periqueductal gray from where we get our

[43:11] basic affective and defensive responses.

[43:21] So shock is happening within I think 50

[43:25] milliseconds

[43:27] which may be why there hasn't been much

[43:30] focus on it before now and I if we look

[43:35] at this in millisecond terms

[43:41] we can see that shock coming in within

[43:45] 50 milliseconds let's say with the

[43:47] activation of the locus ceruius.

[43:54] Then we get the activation of the

[43:56] peracqueductal gray for the affective

[43:59] and defensive responses

[44:04] and then we get the peripheral autonomic

[44:06] nervous system changes.

[44:09] And many trauma models have focused on

[44:13] the peripheral autonomic nervous system

[44:15] change and we're saying that's too late.

[44:20] All that's happening critical to the

[44:24] clinical syndrome that follows is

[44:28] happening potentially in those first 50

[44:32] milliseconds.

[44:35] And I'm hoping that one of these days

[44:37] there'll be a study of the use of DBR in

[44:42] acute situations like war zones because

[44:45] what I've seen working with people in

[44:48] war zones is that if the day before the

[44:51] session they're they've been bombed,

[44:54] their neighbors have been killed, even

[44:57] the day after if we're using DBR, we can

[45:01] get a a reduction of the shock of the

[45:05] events and I hope that reduces the risk

[45:08] of long-term PTSD and I hope that'll be

[45:12] studied.

[45:17] So the shock manifests often

[45:21] with nothing visible on the surface but

[45:24] we slow down enough to ask about it. Is

[45:28] there a shiver, a shudder, a jolt?

[45:33] a gasp,

[45:35] a blow to the chest or the abdomen.

[45:39] These fleeting sensations

[45:43] are what we slow down enough to pick up

[45:46] before the emotional or the defensive

[45:49] responses come in.

[45:54] And we think that that's important for

[45:57] the later development of PTSD, but also

[46:00] of syndromes of chronic derealization,

[46:04] depersonalization,

[46:07] hyper vigilance to threat,

[46:10] sleep disturbances,

[46:12] and intense affective responses.

[46:19] and shock in early life, shock in an

[46:22] early attachment relationship, the shock

[46:26] in the infant who reaches out to the

[46:28] mother and and from whom the mother

[46:32] pulls away. That kind of shock we argue

[46:37] has a long-term effect at the brain stem

[46:41] level and a long-term effect on the the

[46:45] activations then at the upper levels of

[46:47] the brain.

[46:51] So the locus ceruius has got this

[46:54] capacity to produce activation

[46:58] throughout the brain and it can also

[47:02] contribute to emotional memories and

[47:06] traumatic memories.

[47:12] And when we pick up the shock, we urge

[47:16] people to be with it, to slow down,

[47:20] to just be in this moment with those

[47:24] shock sensations.

[47:26] Let us be together with them, holding

[47:29] them, and letting the process

[47:48] So um when I was coming here I thought

[47:51] if shock isn't in Buddhist psychology

[47:55] does it mean that I have to say to a

[47:57] group of Buddhists that they need to

[48:00] slow down more

[48:03] that they need to be more mindful?

[48:06] But I thought there must be another

[48:08] explanation.

[48:10] And I'm so relieved here. I know you're

[48:13] a nonviolent audience, but nevertheless,

[48:16] it's a relief to find that there is an

[48:19] alternative explanation.

[48:21] Long-term meditation alters the basic

[48:25] functioning of the locus ceruius. So

[48:29] that I think that long-term meditators

[48:34] are more able to be with a preffrontal

[48:38] cortex awareness of the abstract and an

[48:42] enhanced sensory awareness in the same

[48:46] moment. And perhaps that leads to shock

[48:51] um shock proofing, shock resistance to

[48:54] some extent.

[48:56] But I do hope that anyone who

[49:00] um is using this model, who learns this

[49:04] model, applies some of the principles of

[49:07] slowing down and being just being with.

[49:18] And after the shock dissipates, then we

[49:21] get the pain. And it's often the pain of

[49:23] aloneeness, abandonment,

[49:26] rejection, humiliation,

[49:30] betrayal, injustice.

[49:33] If people have difficulties with

[49:36] emotions like sadness or rage or shame

[49:40] or fear, the likelihood is that there's

[49:43] unprocessed shock and pain underneath.

[49:47] So, we look to get back to process

[49:50] what's underneath.

[49:55] I use this idea of the compass of pain

[49:59] to to illustrate that point that if

[50:02] there's a lot of pain inside

[50:05] the the emotional responses are

[50:07] intensified by the shock and the

[50:11] emotional pain inside.

[50:16] and Anna Halberg pointed me to the the

[50:20] big bell and uh some writings there

[50:24] which I thought were lovely and so I

[50:26] just wanted to quote because this is

[50:28] what I think is needed for the DBR

[50:32] therapist.

[50:35] We will sit and listen in order to

[50:38] understand.

[50:40] We will sit and listen so attentively

[50:43] that we will be able to hear what the

[50:45] other person is saying and also what is

[50:49] being left unsaid.

[50:52] We know that just by listening deeply we

[50:55] already alleviate

[50:57] a great deal of pain and suffering in

[51:01] the other person.

[51:03] And we argue that when we've made it a

[51:06] really specific experience, once we've

[51:09] identified this sequence, when we've got

[51:12] to underlying shock and pain that are

[51:15] really specific, then that being with

[51:19] allows the healing at the deepest level.

[51:31] Aloneeness is not good for us, it seems.

[51:35] And a paper in nature last month,

[51:39] admittedly on rats rather than humans,

[51:42] did show that there are neurons in the

[51:45] hypothalamus that respond to isolation

[51:49] and neurons that respond to reunion.

[51:53] So we um we think that when people have

[51:59] experienced intense isolation and are

[52:02] then again in communication,

[52:05] it's working at the potentially at the

[52:09] hypothalamic level where there is this

[52:12] need in an area that's also associ

[52:16] associated with hunger and thirst and

[52:19] temperature control.

[52:27] So we in deep brain reorienting

[52:30] are turning towards pain that has been

[52:35] intolerable.

[52:37] If it's a pain from a neglected infant,

[52:41] the pain feels unbearable.

[52:44] It feels never ending.

[52:47] It feels that it will never change. that

[52:50] there is no possibility of healing.

[52:54] And we don't try to do anything but to

[52:58] be with it to allow a turning towards it

[53:02] that allows a relief of this pain and a

[53:08] healing from the being with and the

[53:11] orienting towards it.

[53:15] And even when it takes a long time, if

[53:18] we can get into the origins of the shock

[53:22] and horror and pain

[53:25] and identify them and turn towards them

[53:29] and be with them, we're demonstrating

[53:33] the origins of the suffering and we're

[53:36] demonstrating the capacity to turn

[53:40] towards it, to be with it, and to allow

[53:45] the healing of I think even the deepest

[53:49] pain and distress.

[53:52] And that for me gives hope. Um that even

[53:56] when people have suffered what to me

[54:00] seem like unbearable horrific traumas

[54:05] that there is a way that we can help.

[54:07] there is something we can offer um to

[54:11] and as as part of a path to healing.

[54:19] Thank you for bearing with me in my

[54:21] accent in this intense heat.

[54:28] Thank you. Thank you so much.

[54:32] Thank you so much Frank for this

[54:34] wonderful presentation which flowed on

[54:36] so beautifully from Ruth's. I I think uh

[54:39] many people will have already been

[54:41] noticing some of the connections to the

[54:44] type of practice but also the way of

[54:47] practice here in Plum Village. And what

[54:49] really struck me was um

[54:53] how uh sometimes when we do the group

[54:56] sharing practice the which is really a

[54:58] listening practice

[55:01] um primarily what we're trying to well I

[55:05] don't know about everybody else but

[55:07] usually when when I guide people in deep

[55:08] listening I've kind of instinctively

[55:11] gravitated towards

[55:13] um inviting people not to be thinking

[55:17] about the words that they're hearing but

[55:20] to be in this mode of feeling what

[55:22] they're feeling as they are hearing

[55:25] what's being said and that I so for the

[55:29] therapist to sort of stay at the felt

[55:31] sensory level not at the minute level of

[55:34] meaning making that really struck me um

[55:37] in in what you were saying and and also

[55:42] uh just that you know the methodology

[55:44] that Tai offered us is a community

[55:48] methodology everything is based for us

[55:50] on on on being together and that itself

[55:54] being an experience of he healing so

[55:57] yeah it's wonderful to hear echoes of

[55:59] that in in what you share and I look

[56:01] forward to maybe after sin's sharing we

[56:03] can also have opportunities to reflect

[56:05] more on that and other things thank you

[56:08] so much Frank let's uh once again let go

[56:13] of the meaning making and thinking and

[56:16] theory part of our brain and just come

[56:19] back to the sensing and feeling the

[56:22] vibrations of the sound of the bell.

[56:38] [Laughter]

[56:38] [Music]

[57:22] There's a whole new meaning to meltdown.

[57:28] Thank you.

[57:32] Uh, I want to um dedicate my talk to

[57:36] Tai, my teacher,

[57:39] and to all of us who are traumatized

[57:43] people. I hope you're beginning to

[57:46] understand how amazing you are, that you

[57:49] have lived with these brains and and are

[57:52] thriving yet.

[57:55] Okay.

[57:58] Um, if you were to get an email from me,

[58:00] thank you. It's going to be a better way

[58:02] to do it. If you were going to get an

[58:04] email from me,

[58:07] um, the tagline would always be, uh, a

[58:11] quote from Tesla, Nicola Tesla. If you

[58:14] want to find the secrets of the

[58:16] universe,

[58:18] uh, think in terms of energy,

[58:21] frequency, and vibration.

[58:24] And that's what I think um that's where

[58:29] I've come to in understanding a lot of

[58:32] what's going on in the brain. I do neuro

[58:35] feedback primarily although I'm now very

[58:38] engaged with DBR because it's an

[58:41] extraordinary therapy and I what Frank

[58:44] was was suggesting in this is that shock

[58:47] is the core component where it's easy to

[58:50] think of of of

[58:53] uh shock and frequency together right if

[58:55] you put your finger in a socket which I

[58:58] somehow did often as a child I don't

[59:00] know how that but so I have the

[59:02] experience of shock

[59:04] uh of that order too. Um the uh you you

[59:08] understand that the frequency of shock

[59:11] would reorder the frequency domain of

[59:14] the brain. And so it is with um Frank uh

[59:19] is is discovering neuro feedback. I'm

[59:22] discovering DBR and Ruth is researching

[59:24] the whole package. And we're bringing it

[59:27] here within the context, at least for

[59:29] me, of a deep Buddhist practice.

[59:33] Um so in 1990 I came here um and uh we

[59:39] had a um a tea uh there were 30 of us in

[59:44] one of the buildings I probably don't

[59:45] even recognize anymore which one with we

[59:48] had a tea with Tai and we all drank tea

[59:51] and I think the only one who was really

[59:54] drinking tea was Tai. I think the rest

[59:55] of us were performing drinking tea

[59:58] because it's nerve-wracking. It was

[1:00:00] nerve-wracking. So um uh and everybody

[1:00:05] he then asked everybody to say why it

[1:00:07] was that they had come and people had

[1:00:10] profound stories. People had come from

[1:00:12] other monastic traditions. They had uh

[1:00:17] um had uh severe loss. They had you know

[1:00:21] the the stories that we hear the human

[1:00:24] stories.

[1:00:26] and he got to me and um I said, "Well, I

[1:00:31] don't I don't have a story. I don't What

[1:00:36] happened was is that a patient of mine

[1:00:39] brought in a um magazine called Common

[1:00:42] Boundary, which was a magazine devoted

[1:00:45] to the boundary that connected

[1:00:48] psychotherapy and spirituality.

[1:00:50] Unfortunately, that magazine is no

[1:00:52] longer um in print, but there was an

[1:00:56] article in there by Tiknad Han about

[1:00:59] psychotherapy. And um it was fine. Uh

[1:01:03] and but that wasn't what brought me to

[1:01:06] Plum Village. It was the photograph of

[1:01:09] Tai. And I told him this

[1:01:12] um and I felt like I had a very

[1:01:14] uninspired reason for being there.

[1:01:17] But um uh and we went around and at the

[1:01:21] end we had breakfast and then um Tai

[1:01:24] started his Dharma talk and what he said

[1:01:27] was um

[1:01:30] nobody came to the Buddha for his

[1:01:34] teaching.

[1:01:35] They came to the Buddha for his

[1:01:38] presence.

[1:01:40] And you you see how it ties in with what

[1:01:43] is already being talked about, right?

[1:01:46] the presence the importance of presence

[1:01:48] to uh each other.

[1:01:51] Um it this was a a a retreat on Buddhist

[1:01:56] psychology. It took me 10 days to

[1:01:58] recognize that that's what he was

[1:01:59] teaching. I didn't understand uh the the

[1:02:03] the um very first Dharma talk we had

[1:02:06] here willing was um about um Buddhist

[1:02:10] psychology

[1:02:11] and we would we would be um friends of

[1:02:15] mine and I would wander around and new

[1:02:17] friends and we'd say well um this is

[1:02:22] powerful to some of us it felt kind of

[1:02:24] like an acid trip and we'd be walking

[1:02:27] around and saying all of this is

[1:02:29] profound found the only part that can't

[1:02:31] be true is this no self thing that just

[1:02:34] can't be right that that's uh that was

[1:02:38] inconceivable.

[1:02:40] Um so the whole point

[1:02:43] maybe the whole point of Buddhist

[1:02:45] psychology is to underpin the con the

[1:02:49] possibility the reality of no self but

[1:02:52] that was what we found completely um

[1:02:55] impossible.

[1:02:56] I left the retreat uh saying that I

[1:03:01] would be practicing breathing for the

[1:03:04] next year thinking that I was making a

[1:03:06] huge commitment. And I won't surprise

[1:03:09] any of you to know that I'm still

[1:03:10] practicing breathing 35 years later. Um

[1:03:14] and I still benefit from it. The only

[1:03:16] time I don't benefit from it is when I

[1:03:18] do DBR, right? This has got a different

[1:03:21] mechanism of action. And that's a thing

[1:03:23] that I think that FAP and and um and

[1:03:26] Frank will explore together about how

[1:03:30] because to get to the brain stem you

[1:03:32] have to do a part you you can't you

[1:03:34] can't you you've got to allow something

[1:03:37] that breathing in a particular way

[1:03:39] doesn't allow.

[1:03:41] When I let when I went home, um I

[1:03:45] entered a very deep psychotherapy

[1:03:48] and um I came here as a trauma therapist

[1:03:51] and I entered this deep therapy to

[1:03:54] discover that I was a a traumatized

[1:03:58] person. Um and that that trauma was

[1:04:02] pretty severe

[1:04:04] and that I also suffered um a a

[1:04:08] different kind of no self. And I'm going

[1:04:10] to show you what this means.

[1:04:13] That show up. Yeah. Okay. So, that's

[1:04:16] that's the default mode network in a um

[1:04:20] non-traumatized brain. This is the the

[1:04:23] network in the human brain that gives

[1:04:27] allows this sort of the infrastructure

[1:04:30] of the sense of self and the sense of

[1:04:33] other

[1:04:35] in people who are deeply traumatized.

[1:04:41] This is what you This is what

[1:04:49] this is what you see. Instead,

[1:04:52] um this is the um uh uh there's no

[1:04:59] communication. There's no blood flow.

[1:05:01] That's oxygen and blood flow that you're

[1:05:04] seeing on the top slide.

[1:05:06] And when Ruth, this is Ruth's work, and

[1:05:08] when she first showed us this slide, I

[1:05:12] was I thought it was the most the single

[1:05:14] most profound slide I I'd ever seen. And

[1:05:18] I started to understand myself. Uh even

[1:05:22] though I didn't have a self yet to truly

[1:05:25] understand. Okay.

[1:05:28] All right. So I was in this profound

[1:05:32] therapy. I was inhabiting the form of

[1:05:35] meditation which I have to say was the

[1:05:37] only meditation I could do. I was not

[1:05:40] good at it. Um and I wasn't making a

[1:05:43] whole lot of um progress in

[1:05:45] psychotherapy either. Although my

[1:05:47] therapist I thought was fabulous and

[1:05:49] still do. Um and a fellow yogi um had me

[1:05:54] out for dinner and told me about this

[1:05:56] thing called neuro feedback

[1:05:58] which I was incredibly skeptical about.

[1:06:01] And I'll say the other thing I was

[1:06:03] incredibly skeptical about was when Ruth

[1:06:05] told me about DBR and I said that can't

[1:06:09] be that the only way you can get to a

[1:06:10] brain is through neuro feedback. But I

[1:06:13] had initially been very skeptical at

[1:06:15] neuro feedback too. So neuro feedback

[1:06:18] just in a I I just want to sort of

[1:06:21] highlight the main principles that I

[1:06:23] want you to pay attention to because

[1:06:24] they have to do with frequency.

[1:06:27] The brain organizes itself in

[1:06:30] frequencies.

[1:06:32] Okay. So you can just

[1:06:36] So this is actually my granddaughter

[1:06:38] Emily in her pajamas looking at a at a

[1:06:42] neuro feedback screen and what she's

[1:06:44] she's got um sensors on her head that

[1:06:47] are picking up the brain waves. they're

[1:06:50] amplified and picking up the brain waves

[1:06:52] and she can watch her brain waves

[1:06:54] scrolling and she can learn by a system

[1:06:58] of reward simple reward

[1:07:01] um to um change the way her brain fires

[1:07:05] to change the frequencies of her brain.

[1:07:08] So when um when for most people with uh

[1:07:13] early childhood trauma it is quieting

[1:07:16] it's quieting the nervous system. It's

[1:07:19] calming the nervous system that is

[1:07:21] required. It's helping the nervous

[1:07:23] system regulate itself because there

[1:07:26] haven't been adequate parenting to help

[1:07:30] this child learn to regulate herself.

[1:07:33] It's not true of my granddaughter

[1:07:35] thankfully.

[1:07:36] Um so uh so you can change uh which

[1:07:42] frequencies are most influential in the

[1:07:44] brain. We can do this with very simple

[1:07:47] feedback. This is sitting in front of a

[1:07:50] computer and watching your brain making

[1:07:52] brain waves. When you do,

[1:07:56] even a brain like the one that has no

[1:07:58] default mode network can develop a

[1:08:01] default mode network. It's it's it's a

[1:08:03] frequency band. It's a band of

[1:08:05] frequencies. It's a functional

[1:08:07] connectivity

[1:08:08] and it can learn to regulate itself.

[1:08:12] And when it does um the when it when the

[1:08:16] regulation starts to take hold the the

[1:08:18] default mode network forms and then you

[1:08:21] develop a sense of self.

[1:08:24] I have to say that as a psychotherapist

[1:08:27] I was very much engaged not not at the

[1:08:31] brain level. I knew nothing about the

[1:08:32] brain. This was all mine to me. And I

[1:08:35] was thinking, you know, what we needed

[1:08:36] to do was to help people develop a

[1:08:39] secure sense of self and a um uh an ego.

[1:08:47] And then so that was that it was good

[1:08:49] ego structure.

[1:08:52] Well, I I I just finished my graduate

[1:08:56] degree, paying off my graduate debt, and

[1:08:59] Buddhism starts coming into my life

[1:09:01] where they're talking about no self and

[1:09:06] um no ego. Th this was uh challenging.

[1:09:13] So these are the uh fundamental brain

[1:09:15] waves just so you get to see them. Um

[1:09:19] uh and um and all you do is you say okay

[1:09:24] you want you put into the computer oh I

[1:09:27] want this brain to make more alpha waves

[1:09:30] and they you the person will be rewarded

[1:09:33] when they make more alpha waves.

[1:09:34] Everybody right now it's hard to believe

[1:09:36] in this heat but you're all making these

[1:09:38] w all these waveforms all the time. you

[1:09:42] when you're rewarded to make a

[1:09:44] particular bandwidth, you'll make more

[1:09:45] of that. And this there's a state

[1:09:48] attached to all of those bandwidths that

[1:09:50] then uh you will start to inhabit that

[1:09:53] state or those that possibility for

[1:09:56] state

[1:09:58] change.

[1:10:00] So this is quote

[1:10:02] normal is a word we shouldn't use, but

[1:10:05] this is a an a a um unaffected uh EEG. I

[1:10:11] don't know how to get around normal. And

[1:10:13] um so that's a well functioning uh

[1:10:17] signal

[1:10:19] and this is the signal of a typical

[1:10:22] trauma survivor.

[1:10:24] They have to get

[1:10:27] to that.

[1:10:29] And so there's a series of inhibits and

[1:10:32] a series of rewards that allows the

[1:10:36] brain to move

[1:10:38] increasingly toward its own regulation

[1:10:40] and the toward this kind of signature.

[1:10:46] So um

[1:10:50] see where okay so this is also work by

[1:10:52] Ruth and um this is the the um

[1:10:58] brain stems influence this is pre and

[1:11:01] post one session of neuro feedback.

[1:11:06] The pre is the top and these are all

[1:11:10] severely traumatized people. And what

[1:11:14] you see with this red line at the bottom

[1:11:17] of the top slide is the P AG the

[1:11:20] perryqueductal gray that Frank was

[1:11:22] talking about Ruth 2 the that uh is

[1:11:26] calling the shots for the cortex. it it

[1:11:30] it's it's actually going to the amygdala

[1:11:33] and and it's activating this person.

[1:11:36] There's very little cortical

[1:11:37] involvement.

[1:11:39] After one session of neuro feedback,

[1:11:42] this whole for 80% of people uh in this

[1:11:46] study this whole thing changes and the

[1:11:51] cortex is now calling the shots over the

[1:11:55] brain stem. And what you've seen is uh a

[1:11:59] developmental course that takes

[1:12:01] typically 25 years for the prefrontal

[1:12:05] cortex to be in control of the um more

[1:12:10] primitive parts of the brain. I I

[1:12:12] presented this in South Africa and my

[1:12:15] granddaughter told me that the data was

[1:12:17] actually that women developed this uh

[1:12:20] control in prefrontal cortex at 23 and

[1:12:24] men at 25. So, I just wanted you to know

[1:12:27] that was the case. Okay. Um

[1:12:31] Okay. So, at some point along the way,

[1:12:33] um

[1:12:37] um so so I I was invited to to um Ruth

[1:12:42] invited me to come and meet this um

[1:12:45] person named Frank Corgan and um and who

[1:12:49] had this fabulous new therapy called

[1:12:52] deep brain reorienting. And I said

[1:12:55] politely, "No,

[1:12:58] it there's all these people interested

[1:13:01] in the brain and they don't how to reach

[1:13:04] the brain and I don't buy any of it and

[1:13:06] so I didn't go and as you're learning

[1:13:09] the more I'm skeptical of something, the

[1:13:11] more you should look at it." Okay.

[1:13:13] Right. Um and and now we are working

[1:13:18] I've been working with I've been

[1:13:20] experiencing DBR

[1:13:23] um with Frank and it's been a most

[1:13:25] illuminating sometimes most challenging

[1:13:28] uh process um but it it we're called

[1:13:34] upon to bring all of this together as I

[1:13:36] mentioned earlier and I think what shock

[1:13:40] does in the frequency domain of the

[1:13:42] brain is that it it um it just ampl it a

[1:13:47] amplifies everything. This is really

[1:13:48] what Frank was saying and it but if you

[1:13:51] just think about this as frequencies

[1:13:53] it's an it just makes sense right it

[1:13:56] just makes sense that if you had shock

[1:13:57] the shock would be the inciting moment

[1:14:01] that will it it's shock that will create

[1:14:03] this tsunami.

[1:14:06] So

[1:14:08] what was happening when I was here um

[1:14:12] which I was doing with very little

[1:14:14] awareness actually at the time but I was

[1:14:17] beginning my search for self and for no

[1:14:20] self. Um and I'm going to end my talk.

[1:14:26] Isn't are you grateful to hear those

[1:14:27] words? Okay. going to end my talk with

[1:14:31] um I want to read um a journal entry, a

[1:14:36] couple of journal entries actually from

[1:14:38] um my

[1:14:40] uh a retreat at the forest refuge in

[1:14:43] Massachusetts. Um and um and then end

[1:14:48] with a piece that u was first read to me

[1:14:51] by my dharma teacher there, Jill

[1:14:53] Shepard.

[1:14:55] Okay, so it's very hot. just float.

[1:14:58] Don't think too hard about this. Just

[1:15:00] let it, you know, let it it will the the

[1:15:04] seeds the more your the less your mind

[1:15:07] is actually engaged, the more the seeds

[1:15:09] are watered. So the sweat is watering

[1:15:11] seeds, too. Think of it that way. Okay,

[1:15:14] I will. Okay.

[1:15:17] Uh I felt quite centered as I headed out

[1:15:20] along the uneven path into the woods.

[1:15:25] Something is changing. This is after

[1:15:27] this is actually just so you know where

[1:15:29] I am. This is in 2023.

[1:15:32] I've had a year of of DBR and I'm um

[1:15:37] thinking about all the these practices

[1:15:40] of psychotherapy, the practice of of

[1:15:43] neuro feedback, the practice of

[1:15:45] meditation and the practice of DBR.

[1:15:49] Um I felt quite centered as I headed out

[1:15:51] along the uneven path into the woods.

[1:15:54] Something is changing. The trauma

[1:15:57] experience is dematerializing.

[1:16:01] Substance is draining out. I do not

[1:16:04] identify with it. And my identity is no

[1:16:07] longer of it. I experience not just

[1:16:12] absence of trauma, but in Buddhist

[1:16:15] terms, emptiness of self. I was

[1:16:19] wondering what this would mean for DBR

[1:16:21] when my foot caught on some roots and I

[1:16:24] fell.

[1:16:26] No damage done, but of course it got my

[1:16:28] attention as hitting the ground will do.

[1:16:33] My history will affect me even if I no

[1:16:36] longer identify with it. Even as the

[1:16:39] impact of the stories disappear,

[1:16:42] vibrations remain.

[1:16:44] The Buddha would have no language for

[1:16:46] frequency, but I think it's key to

[1:16:48] everything he taught. We are frequency.

[1:16:52] In DBR, it is shock. It's shock waves

[1:16:56] that overtake and overwhelm the

[1:16:58] frequencies of the brain. The brain

[1:17:01] organizes itself in these frequency

[1:17:03] patterns. It communicates to itself that

[1:17:07] way. It learns and holds what it learns

[1:17:10] in patterns of vibration.

[1:17:14] This whole Buddhist experiment devotes

[1:17:17] itself to knowing no self, to letting

[1:17:20] the ego go.

[1:17:22] What is the ego but the oscillation of

[1:17:25] fear?

[1:17:27] That's actually a thought that first

[1:17:29] came to me with Robert Thurman, who's a

[1:17:32] Buddhist teacher.

[1:17:35] Um, what is left when all of this truly

[1:17:37] drops away? oscillation,

[1:17:41] bare vibration, unadorned.

[1:17:45] But for all too many, that domain is

[1:17:47] shock is shot through with shock.

[1:17:51] That is what I think I experience today.

[1:17:55] That's what this all means

[1:18:00] uh uh for DBR. I could only reach these

[1:18:04] levels with brainwave training and uh

[1:18:09] DBR to that helps me know the reality of

[1:18:12] shock and to begin to dissolve it.

[1:18:16] And I wrote this I left this retreat uh

[1:18:20] and you'll hear why and this is just a

[1:18:22] letter to my teacher afterwards um uh

[1:18:26] commenting on it. I left because I had

[1:18:29] to stop meditating.

[1:18:31] I was going so deep in my sitting

[1:18:34] meditations

[1:18:35] discovering no mind at all. But then

[1:18:39] suddenly there would be a trauma

[1:18:41] intrusion and I just don't have the

[1:18:44] skill yet to manage this. The meditation

[1:18:47] legend as I've always heard it is that

[1:18:50] these states of breakthrough to the

[1:18:53] reality of no self

[1:18:55] obviate the terrible realities of the

[1:18:58] conditioned self

[1:19:01] at the very least that one wouldn't have

[1:19:03] to experience them simultaneously.

[1:19:07] I'm not complaining. It was

[1:19:09] extraordinary. But given the present

[1:19:11] instability of my CNS, not really imagin

[1:19:15] not really manageable.

[1:19:17] But it actually may have been the

[1:19:20] instability that made it all possible. I

[1:19:23] don't know. My mind was amenable to

[1:19:26] sitting. It was my brain saying, "No,

[1:19:29] no, enough for now." And I will know

[1:19:33] when to start again. So I was home and

[1:19:36] still not meditating and if it's

[1:19:39] premature I can train.

[1:19:42] Over time during the retreat the

[1:19:45] question came what in the cosmos is

[1:19:49] irreducible?

[1:19:51] The answer is vibration.

[1:19:53] In our individual universe when the

[1:19:56] brain learns to change the frequencies

[1:19:58] at which it vibrates agitation can

[1:20:01] diminish. tension can improve.

[1:20:05] All kinds of things can change.

[1:20:07] Autoimmune disorders, migraine headache,

[1:20:10] the sense of self itself. What we're

[1:20:13] seeing

[1:20:15] this happens um most readily with neuro

[1:20:18] feedback. There is feedback to the

[1:20:20] brain, but of course it can happen with

[1:20:22] meditation as well.

[1:20:25] We are negotiating this whole Buddhist

[1:20:27] project through the frequencies of our

[1:20:29] brain and body. But these frequencies

[1:20:32] remain after death. They cannot be

[1:20:35] buried. They cannot be burned. They

[1:20:39] cannot disappear.

[1:20:41] We may each have our own little

[1:20:43] individual

[1:20:45] frequency imprint in the vast cosmos of

[1:20:48] vibration that changes things in

[1:20:51] infantessimal but significant ways

[1:20:54] because it would have to. And that might

[1:20:57] even reconstitute in another frequency

[1:21:00] being that we might call rebirth.

[1:21:05] I am beginning to say boldly I think

[1:21:08] that the mind is infinite

[1:21:11] but fully and deeply respecting its

[1:21:14] complexity. The brain is not.

[1:21:17] Our treatments neuro feedback and DBR

[1:21:20] focus on the brain. These practices

[1:21:23] address regulation and the multiple

[1:21:25] shocks that disregulate and have given

[1:21:28] me a new and evolving mind.

[1:21:31] Psychotherapy gives me invaluable time

[1:21:34] and attention for the mind that is

[1:21:36] emerging.

[1:21:38] And now I think because the brain stem

[1:21:40] is quieting, my mind is learning for a

[1:21:44] few moments at a time to dissolve itself

[1:21:49] to dissolve itself into pure vibration.

[1:21:54] So I'm I just want to switch and read

[1:21:57] you this beautiful piece that was read

[1:21:59] to me at uh the on one of my retreats at

[1:22:02] the forest refuge. This is called the

[1:22:05] silent pulse. Uh it's a book by um

[1:22:08] George Leonard. The the subtitle is a

[1:22:12] search for the perfect rhythm that

[1:22:15] exists in each of us. And this is um I

[1:22:18] thought particularly useful because this

[1:22:20] is her his thoughts on these are his

[1:22:23] thoughts on um quantum physics.

[1:22:27] Okay.

[1:22:29] Almost done everyone. Okay. The electron

[1:22:32] scanning electron scanning microscope

[1:22:35] with the power to magnify several

[1:22:38] thousand times takes us down into a

[1:22:41] realm that has the look of the sea about

[1:22:43] it in the kingdom of the corp

[1:22:47] corpuscals.

[1:22:48] No, that's never mind. There is

[1:22:51] transfiguration and there is some

[1:22:53] sorrow. The endless round of birth and

[1:22:56] death.

[1:22:57] Every passing second some two and a half

[1:23:01] million red cells are born.

[1:23:04] Every second the same number die.

[1:23:08] The typical cell lives about 110 days

[1:23:12] then becomes tired and decrepit.

[1:23:16] There are no lingering deaths here. For

[1:23:19] when a cell loses its vital force, it

[1:23:23] somehow attracts the attention of the

[1:23:25] macrofase.

[1:23:28] As the magnification increases, the

[1:23:30] flesh does begin to dissolve.

[1:23:33] Muscle fiber now takes on a fully

[1:23:37] crystallin aspect. We can see that it is

[1:23:41] made of long spiral molecules in orderly

[1:23:45] array.

[1:23:47] And all of these molecules are swaying

[1:23:50] like wheat in the wind, connected with

[1:23:53] one another and held in place by

[1:23:55] invisible waves that pulse many trillion

[1:24:00] times a second.

[1:24:03] [Music]

[1:24:13] [Music]

[1:24:24] [Laughter]

[1:24:36] Heat. Heat.

[1:24:57] vibration, right?

[1:24:59] What are the molecules made of? As we

[1:25:03] move closer, we see a we see atoms, the

[1:25:06] tiny shadowy balls dancing around their

[1:25:09] fixed locations in the molecules,

[1:25:12] sometimes changing position with their

[1:25:14] partners in perfect rhythms.

[1:25:17] And now we focus on one of the atoms.

[1:25:20] Its interior is lightly veiled by a

[1:25:23] cloud of electrons. We come closer,

[1:25:27] increasing the magnification.

[1:25:29] The shell dissolves and we look on the

[1:25:33] inside to find nothing.

[1:25:37] Somewhere within that emptiness we know

[1:25:40] is a nucleus.

[1:25:42] We scan the space and there it is a tiny

[1:25:46] dot. At last we have discovered

[1:25:49] something hard and solid, a reference

[1:25:52] point.

[1:25:54] But no, as we move closer to the

[1:25:56] nucleus, it too begins to dissolve.

[1:26:01] It too is nothing more than an

[1:26:04] oscillating field, waves of rhythm.

[1:26:08] Inside the nucleus are other organized

[1:26:11] fields, protons, neutrons, even smaller

[1:26:16] particles. Each of these, upon our

[1:26:18] approach, also dissolve into pure

[1:26:22] rhythm.

[1:26:24] These days they the scientists

[1:26:28] he wrote this not me. These days they

[1:26:31] the scientists are looking for quirks

[1:26:34] strange subatomic entities having

[1:26:36] qualities which they describe with such

[1:26:38] words as upness, downness, charm,

[1:26:42] strangeness, truth, beauty, color, and

[1:26:46] flavor.

[1:26:47] But no matter if we could get close

[1:26:50] enough to these wondrous quarks, they

[1:26:53] too would melt away. They too would have

[1:26:57] to give up all pretense of solidity.

[1:27:00] Even their speed and relationship would

[1:27:03] be unclear,

[1:27:05] leaving them only relationship and

[1:27:08] pattern of vibration.

[1:27:10] Of what is the body made? It is made of

[1:27:14] emptiness and rhythm.

[1:27:17] Thank you.

[1:27:32] [Music]

[1:27:44] [Laughter]

[1:27:44] [Music]

Thich Nhat Hanh
AuthorThich Nhat Hanh

Vietnamese Zen master, poet, and peace activist. Founded Plum Village in France and was central to the engaged Buddhism movement. His teachings on mindfulness, interbeing, and walk…

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